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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 2:12 pm 
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Satan / Devil / Lucifer / Hell

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"... Of course, the dualistic concepts of absolute good and evil did not originate with Christianity but are found long before the Christian era, particularly within Zoroastrianism. Satan is an adaptation of the Persian representative of evil "Ahriman," the twin brother of "God," the same as the Egyptian Set, Horus's twin and principal enemy also known as "Sata," whence comes "Satan." Horus struggles with Set in the exact manner that Jesus battles with Satan, with 40 days in the wilderness, among other similarities, such as the revealing from the mount "all the kingdoms of Earth." This myth represents the triumph of light over dark, or the sun's return to relieve the terror of the night. Horus/Set was the god of the two horizons; hence, Horus was the rising sun, and Set the time of the Sun-SET."

"... The origin of the "devil" also can be uncovered through etymology, in that the word comes from the Sanskrit term "deva" or the Persian "daeva," both of which originally referred to angelic entities, usually female, who were demonized by Christian propagandists. In actuality, "devil" shares the same root as "divine." In addition, "demon" is a Christian vilification of the Greek word "daemon," which likewise referred to a divine spirit..."

- Christ Conspiracy (257-8)

Quote:
"... Despite all the political intrigue, Lucifer simply means "Light bearer," and he was in the earliest times a sun god, which is why he is called "Day Star, son of morning/dawn." The sun god Lucifer is "cast out of heaven" by the other angels, or stars, as night descends. This god/angel Lucifer is pre-Hebraic, found in Canaan, Egypt and Mesopotamia, and was not originally considered evil..."

- C.C. (229)

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 3:29 pm 
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... The pertinent verses at Isaiah 14:12-14 that discuss ascending into heaven purport to represent the bragging of the character "Heylel," translated as Lucifer, the "Light-Bearer." Per Strong's (H1966), however, Heylel or Helel could also refer either to a king of Babylon or to the "morning star," i.e., the planet Venus. In fact, one of Venus's epithets in Greek was "Phosphoros," or "Light bearer." The RSV translates the term "Helel" at Isaiah 14:12 as, "O Day Star, son of Dawn!" In the Septuagint (3rd-1st cent. BCE), the word "Helel" is rendered as "(H)eosphoros," which just happens to be the name of a very old Greek god/titan who served as one aspect of the planet Venus. This god Eosphoros is mentioned in Homer's Iliad (23:226) and in Hesiod's Theogony (378), dating to the 9th and 8th centuries BCE, respectively...

~ 251 "Who Was Jesus?" http://www.stellarhousepublishing.com/whowasjesus.html


Quote:
God and Satan Two Sides of the Same Coin

"Does it make any difference which side you're on? Beliefs in God or Satan sit on the two sides of the same coin of religion. Both superstitions lead to ignorance, although it appears ironic that the Christians who point to Satan as the cause of evil fail to see that the Godly side has far surpassed the Satan side in terms of atrocities, intolerance, and falsehoods (have you ever seen a group of Satanists start a war?). Indeed, even the Bible claims that God created evil (Isaiah 45:7) . From a Bible perspective, it gets difficult to tell the difference between the two. Both appear to work as a team, but God does the cursing, the plagues, and the killing (see "The Dark Bible"). Only from a nonbelieving perspective can you see the problems with both sides.

If you wonder why both coin sides depict "Morning Star", the reason appears in the Bible, as it refers to both Jesus and Lucifer as the morning star. The Latin word Lucifer (light-bearer) comes translated from the Hebrew word for morning star. Since the morning star always appears low on the horizon, the ancients thought of it as a fallen star (representing the fallen angel). Venus also appears as the brightest "star" in the heavens, thus the "bright and morning star." In the Great Revelation (see Revelation 22:16,) Jesus reveals himself as "the bright and morning star."

http://www.nobeliefs.com/GodSatanCoin.htm



Here's Dr. Robert Price talking about the origin of Lucifer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJCxcez5U0M

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The Jesus Mythicist Creed:
The "Jesus Christ" of the New Testament is a fictional composite of characters, real and mythical. A composite of multiple "people" is no one.

The celestial Origins of Religious Belief
ZG Part 1
Jesus: Hebrew Human or Mythical Messiah?


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 3:47 am 
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The Devil is very real...


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 10:32 am 
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kat3d "The Devil is very real..."

Of course, you will need to provide valid evidence substantiating that claim - those who make the claim bear the responsibility of burden of proof. It's easy to make assorted supernatural religious claims such as this but nobody has ever substantiated the claim. Theists still can't even provide evidence for God or Jesus - they don't even try to provide valid evidence for Satan (St. Anne) or Lucifer.

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 Post subject: XIAN FORGERY??
PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 2:54 pm 
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CHECK OUT THIS PAGE OF QUOTES ON CHRISTIANITY AS FORGERY ?? ... perhaps contains some leads which Acharya could take up ??

http://www.irishoriginsofcivilization.c ... rgery.html

Quote:
Saint Augustine Recants

Towards the end of his life…St Augustine confessed that Christianity was ‘a religion of threats and bribes unworthy of wise men’ – Tony Bushby (The Bible Fraud)


So then, is this true? Where is the passage? And who is Tony Bushby??


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:35 am 
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the god in the bible is not the creator,The fact god sez to whats his name abraham? to go sacrifice his son (which indicates human sacrifice was not unheard of in those parts)is an absurd ploy worthy of adolescents,as to evil? this world is run by evil.and they do human sacrifice as well.,soemtimes in mass quantities such as world wars.It is pleasant to think it will all get set stright but I think it is up to the people of this world,but from what i see it will take more than that.freemasonry god ccomes down to lucifer and thats who they want to usher inthere aint judeo christianity but there is judeo freemasonry,.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 11:17 pm 
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On Brad Meltzers Decoded "Statue of Liberty" and the Illuminati - discusses Lucifer. It sets the record straight regarding the claims that the Statue of Liberty symbolizes Lucifer and what Lucifer really is. I thought they really did a great job on this one. It all comes together nicely in the end.

Brad Meltzer's Decoded: Statue of Liberty

Brad Meltzers Decoded 'Decoded Statue of Liberty - Hidden Illuminati Symbolism' - (To get to the 'Lucifer' conclusion skip to 38 minutes)



For more information on the subject of Lucifer and the light-bearer see these threads:

Lucifer: The Light Bearer

Does Jesus = Lucifer?

Solar Hero / Torch Bearer

Iliad, Odyssey and Jesus

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Christ in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 11:22 am 
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Satan is to Lucifer what Set is to Apep. Apep, the serpent, was sometimes interchangeble or conflated with Set (who too was a serpent), which explains why Satan and Lucifer are often treated as the same entity, while some stories feature Set and Apep as being cohorts, partners, or even enemies...

So we have the cult of Osiris (judaism), the cult of Horus (christianity), the cult of Set (satanism), and the cult of Apep (luciferianism)... rival serpent cults all over the place. Why?


The original madonna and child
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Isis and Osiris
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These are what billions of religious zealots have been worshipping every day for countless aeons.

MEET QUEZACOATL, THE SUN GOD OF THE MAYANS
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THIS IS WHAT HE ORDERS FOR LUNCH
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YOU DON'T GET SERVICE LIKE THIS AT THE FOUR SEASONS, I CAN TELL YA.

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IM A CENTURY AHEAD OF YA, PAL.
Image


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 8:53 pm 
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Yeah, the serpent theme definitely comes up a lot, and there's a good reason for that which I'll come back too. But yes, this is another point of "pagan parallel" with Christianity too, for remember, Jesus himself likened himself to a serpent when he said just as Moses lifted up the serpent on the staff in the wilderness so must Jesus be lifted up on the cross. Hence why you can find much xian iconography depicting things like this-
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And even the serpent on the staff for healing can be seen in iconography of Aesclepius and other pagan gods of the healing arts, hell, that's why the modern iconic medical symbol is the caduceus-
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Now, I can already hear the apologetic contention that this would post date Moses, but Moses himself was allegedly raised in Egypt, where we DO find pre-judaic iconography of...

the serpent on the staff. :)
In this relief dated to the 12th dynasty, 1991-1962 BC, thus far PREdating the Old Testament, Horus is giving the cross of life to his Ba, while behind it there is... a serpent lifted up on a staff. :)
(It's Amenemhat I on the right as the Ba of Horus, wearing the crown of Egypt, and being given an ankh by his son, who is now the new Horus and new King of Egypt. The uraeus snake is upon a Was scepter, with a Shen ring, a symbol for eternity, around its neck)-

ImageImage


And another common feature found throughout Egypt that predates Moses & Judaism, is the winged serpent-
LINK
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This motif appears to have found its way into Judaism via the concept of the seraphim, a class of angels mentioned throughout the Old Testament, in particular in Isaiah 6:1-3, which surround the throne of yhwh and sing praises to him. A mere Googling for the Strong's concordance entry for seraph[im] reveals that it can be translated as a fiery serpent or even a fire breathing dragon-http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H8314&t=KJV
Quote:
Isaiah 6:1-3 NASB
In the year of King Uzziah’s death I saw the Lord sitting on a throne, lofty and exalted, with the train of His robe filling the temple. Seraphim stood above Him, each having six wings: with two he covered his face, and with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew. And one called out to another and said, “Holy, Holy, Holy, is the LORD of hosts, The whole earth is full of His glory.”


But getting back to Osiris, whom you mentioned earlier, indeed, not only he, but evidently, at one point or another, the Ba of all the gods of Egypt had the form of a serpent. As Lois V. Zabkar wrote in his book A Study of the Ba Concept in Ancient Egyptian Texts-
Quote:
2. A god is manifested in sacred animals. ...the Ba of all gods is in the serpents. ... Amun is the "august Ba of the Kematef-serpent." Osiris is the "great Ba of the Kematef-serpent."- p.13


And as for the picture you showed of Serapis[Osiris] & Isis as serpents there-
Image

How fascinating, because allegedly, in 1798, a soldier in Napoleon's army sketched a replication of part of an artifact called the Kerymeion, which depicts Jesus and Mary. And that depiction...

was this-

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And on a side note, since you mentioned Quetzalcoatl as well, this imagery is very similar to the depiction of some central American deities as well, so pyramids aren't all their culture has in common with Egypt-
LINK
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Now, why is it that serpent imagery is so abundant throughout ancient mythology, especially in relation to the gods?
Well, it's simple really.
It is because, apparently, that was the origin of all religion. The oldest religion in the world seems to to have been African serpent worship and then religion spread out to the rest of the world from there, as did, well, all homo sapiens, since our race originated in Africa as well. This was the thesis of one 19th century scholar, Rev. John Bathurst Deane, as can be read in his book The Worship of the Serpent Traced Throughout the World: Attesting the temptation and fall of man by the instrumentality of a serpent tempter, which can be found for free on Google Books by clicking on the title.
His conclusion appears to have been further confirmed by findings since his time, in particular, that of modern archeologist Sheila Coulson and her discovery of the earliest known site of religious ritual which was a stone monument of... a python. You can read more about that here- http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/11/061130081347.htm
or you can just Google it, of course.

Now, if you ask me, I think the reason that the serpent in particular was the earliest object of worship was twofold.

One reason, I think, is because it represents rebirth/reincarnation/resurrection due to its ability to shed its skin in whole, which looks like it is being reborn. So the serpent was a perfect natural symbol for eternal life.

However, since, if I recall correctly, the idea of the soul and of afterlife was not always a part of religion and was a later development, I think perhaps the main reason serpents were the earliest object to be venerated is because their form quite conspicuously parallels, and thus became a symbol for, ...
the phallus.

And the phallus truly is our creator. The phallus has given life to every animal on earth(sans parthenogenesis, of course). So it should come as no surprise that the phallus came to be revered and worshiped as our father god, because, mysticism aside, it really is what created each and every one of us.(with help, of course :wink: )

And so, since the serpent's form strongly resembles the phallus, it's only natural that it became the symbol for it.
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And hence the serpent seems to be an allegory for the phallus in many stories of the divine conception of several "virgin born" gods & demi-gods.
Just to quote a few of examples, the first one I'll mention is Alexander the Great.
According to Plutarch in his work "The Life of Alexander", which you can read here-http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Plutarch/Lives/Alexander*/3.html, Alexander's birth was annunciated to both his mother, Olympias, and her husband Philip in separate dreams. They had just been married, and the night before the day of consummation, the obvious implication from that being that Olympias was still a virgin at this point, she had a dream that she was struck in the womb by a bolt of lightning, a common motif for divine conception, as Osiris(as the Apis), Horus, and Dionysus all likewise had versions of their myths in which they were conceived by a bolt of lightning striking their mothers. And interestingly enough, on that point, Olympias was a worshiper of Dionysus. Anyway, Philip saw a serpent in her bed chamber and was thus afraid to consummate with her and rarely ever tried to thereafter. Later on he had a dream that he placed a seal on her womb in the form of a lion. Long story short, the conclusion was that all this meant that Alexander was the son of of the god Ammon(who by way of syncretism was Jupiter/Zeus to the Greeks) and that Ammon was that serpent guarding Olympias and keeping Philip at bay from consummating with her.
So since this story involves child conception, could Ammon's form as a serpent be euphemism for his phallus?
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The second example I will give is obviously ripping off the first one, especially since its main character, Augustus Caesar, idolized Alexander and this story even mentions Alexander. Suetonius, quoting Asclepiades the Mendesian, tells us a version of the story of Augustus's conception & birth in his book The Twelve Caesars, which you can read here-http://books.google.com/books?id=9CvSzzK-iwAC&printsec=frontcover&dq#v=onepage&q&f=false
It tells us that Augustus's mother, Atia, fell asleep in the temple of Apollo after performing midnight rituals to him, and then a serpent crawled up to her and left a mark upon her in the form of a serpent. Ten months later, Augustus was born, and it was concluded that he was the son of the god Apollo.
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The third and final example I will give is that of the conception & birth of Ericthonius. You can read the various ancient sources about that here- http://www.theoi.com/Olympios/AthenaMyths.html#Erikhthonios
The story goes that Athena, the celibate & patron goddess of virgins, was about to be raped by Hephaistos, but in an effort to preserve her virginity, she fought him off. He ejaculated anyway, and his semen made contact with her skin. Some versions say it landed on her thigh which she quickly wiped off and threw to the earth. Other versions say she buried it into the earth with her foot. Either way, it made contact with her, which I guess was enough to mingle her dna with that of Hephaistos, because out of the earth itself sprang up her new born son, Ericthonius. In some versions, the earth goddess, instead of the earth itself, acted as Athena's surrogate, and then immediately handed him back over to Athena once he was born. Some iconography depicts him in a humanoid form. Other iconography, however, depicts Ericthonius as...
LINK
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... a serpent. A view endorsed by Apollonius of Tyana, a miracle-working itinerant sage who was a contemporary with Jesus & the apostles in the first century C.E. Philostratus tells us that Apollonius was defending the idea that Domitian was likewise a son of Athena, because people were arguing that Athena can't have a son since she is a virgin. But Apollonius reminds them of Ericthonius's virgin birth. But it's interesting how Apollonius describes Ericthonius-
Quote:
You imagined that Athena could not possibly have a son, because she is a virgin, for ever and ever; but you forgot, methinks, that this goddess once upon a time bore a dragon to the Athenians.


So he refers to this virgin born god as a dragon, eh? So once again we have this serpentine connection in relation to miraculous(or even "virgin") conceptions of deities.

Anyway, I guess that's all I have left to say on the matter. For now.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 4:29 pm 
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Great posts here, including the latest one by GA - wow! So happy to see others picking up on all this good comparative-religion stuff. :P It's just so fascinating.

Be sure to see the thread concerning the "Horus v. Set/Jesus v. Satan" parallel in the Booktalk discussion of Christ in Egypt.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 8:24 am 
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Regarding the serpent and how it is present as well as what it represents, it is seemingly connected to most if not all mythologies and religions around the world in some way or another. The symbolic image and representation arise in cultures indipendent of relations and influence from a point of origin. This should indicate a "built in" human subconsious reckognition of the serpent, and a common perception of it both in form and abilities.

While it in earliest form symbolize duality as life or death, known and unknown, good and evil etc... Or to some extent the boundrary or limit between dualistic perception. We can see a change with comming with christianity where duality in all is replaced with dogma of absolutes.

In Exodus Moses and Aron duel with Pharao and his priests, where both uses rods turning into serpents ( Serpent and three of life ).The serpent representing both good and evil depending purely on the eyes of the beholder.

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New testament bible also refers to duality of the serpent as protector and destroyer of life.

"They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover." (Mark 16:18)

"Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you." (Luke 10:19)



The dogma of absolutes and philosophical separation of duality known as good/evil becomes a major issue in the period when the old roman empire crumbles under germanic pagan invasions and pressure. Gaining foothold in the Holy Roman Empire as inspiration and motivation to christian remaining Europe, leading to the pagan Norse invasion and continued cultural war breaking out in full after the invasion of Saxony and desecration of Irminsul ( Three of life ) by Charlemagne.

The Proto Norse symbolic and philosophical understanding of the center of the universe, and the duality separated by the serpent is a concept found indipendently around the world. Why and how could be related to the minds adaptive perception of existence and experience being something that is shaped and formed by environment people live in.

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Stone carving depicting the destruction of the Externsteine Irminsul by Christians, 9th century CE, Germany. The Cross replacing Iriminsul as axis mundi and center of the universe.

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Present day presentation and understanding of Satan/devil/lucifer is a chaotic blend of misconceptions regarding old beliefs, and many elements from old Norse beliefs infused to create a worldview functioning as propaganda to promote christianity. Witchcraft to mention one element, is a concept created by the church to remove remnants of old pagan and Norse tradition of women as healers and seers connected to knowledge comming from nature. The only form of socialized priesthood and organized structure of Norse paganism was the position of women as natural connection to elements and nature, functioning as something comparable to priests.

Although giving in to the Holy Roman Empire after about 300 years of cultural war. The christianity arising in the north was in many ways very different from the one comming from Rome.

The serpent as a symbolic border between the known and unknown, life and death, the dragon/serpent as symbolic representation of all and eternal challenges for the hero to overcome.

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The longships that sometimes was refered to as "drakeskip", where even one longship in the sagas is simply named "draken". A tradition with broader symbolic intention than the perceived fear factor. The longships of three ( three of life ), sorrounded by the serpent/dragon as protector of those aboard when crossing unknown dangerous waters or going into conflict with unknown outcome. The adventuring men inspired by the heroic sagas had leaders who sometimes named their swords and shields with words related to aspects of the serpent. The shield as protector of life, sword being taker of life.

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The earliest churces outside the clutches of the power of Rome merged old philosophy with new philosophy forced upon them. Sending a message impossible to misunderstand, when building churces as upside turned longships and using wood
( three of life ) ornamented with serpent/dragon.

Borgund stavkirke

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Hegge stavkirke

The one eyed "allfather" perhaps expressing his thoughts regarding the pope and Rome.
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The portal with two cherubims guarding the entrance inside the three of life
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A tradition not common, if present at all outside the nordic region, is the votive ship. A tradition of hanging a symbolic ship inside the roof of a church. A symbolic vessel from ancient times, the passage way from this world to the unknown after.
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The devil, lucifer or satan as understood by mainstream religion is something without origin even in earliest pre-Roman christianity. The idea of duality removed from humanity, and evil being something absolute and disconnected from certain people derives from introduction of infallible humans. Nothing is as powerful when it comes to control of the public, when you can persuade them of also being infallible as long as they obey their religious leaders.

Perhaps this is why people can gather at a stadium and pray for a better economy. When you are infallible in actions, it must be the devil at work. Trial by error serve no purpose as method of problem solving, as error is attribute of evil people worshipping the devil. I wonder where society is headed if this understanding spreads and becomes dominant.....

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Eyvitar firna - er maðr annan skal, þess er um margan gengr guma; heimska ór horskum - gerir hölða sonu - sá inn máttki munr.

Never place blame on man, because it happens to all. No matter how wise, a fool he becomes, when love steals his powers.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 9:10 am 
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Vallhall,

The images for Borgund stavkirke and Øye stavkirke are way too big would you please make them smaller.

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Christ in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 4:10 am 
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Will do. Sorry :oops:

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Eyvitar firna - er maðr annan skal, þess er um margan gengr guma; heimska ór horskum - gerir hölða sonu - sá inn máttki munr.

Never place blame on man, because it happens to all. No matter how wise, a fool he becomes, when love steals his powers.

Hávamál


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 1:02 pm 
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Vallhall wrote:
Will do. Sorry :oops:

No problem - we should have some kind of image reduction feature on the forum, but we are perpetually shorthanded techwise and resourcewise. Thanks for all the cool images and for your enthusiasm!

I love this discussion showing how Jesus was equated with the serpent raised up by Moses - that's a whole fascinating tangent one could write a monograph about.

Image

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 4:03 pm 
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Why Americans Care So Much About Hell

Hellbound the movie

"Hellbound?" Official Teaser Trailer

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2013 Astrotheology Calendar
The Mythicist Position
Christ in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection
Stellar House Publishing at Youtube


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