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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 12:59 pm 
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Thor

Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2008 12:39 am
Posts: 22
Quote:

'Bible tale' column assumes historicity of walking on water

Charles W. Hedrick

Mr. Mark Thieme's column on a "Bible tale" Sunday May 10 ("Bible tale gives comfort in stressful time") is actually an inspirational sermon avoiding the hard historical questions about the narrative of Jesus and Peter walking on the water, which appears in Matthew, Mark and John (the earliest version being Mark).

Thieme seems to assume that the incident is an actual historical event. But in truth human beings cannot walk on water unless it is frozen. If Mr. Thieme wants to make a special appeal that Jesus, like a 1,200 pound gorilla, can do whatever he wants since he is the divine son of God, then Jesus forfeits his humanity, and becomes a God in a human suit. Common sense says that if he is a divine being, he is not a human being. The two species are very different.

This conclusion to which Mr. Thieme's essay seems unerringly to lead us was declared heresy by the fourth century orthodox creeds. So, in a sense, Mr. Thieme leads the reader to think of this particular "Bible tale" as an actual historical event (to protect the historicity of the Bible, I assume), but as it turns out, he wins the historicity of the tale at the expense of the orthodox view of the cross.

The orthodox view of Jesus' death is that Jesus as a human being was tempted like other human beings (yet without sin, Hebrews 4:15); so being sinless he could suffer for our sins and die in our place (1 Corinthians 15:3).

On the other hand, if he was tempted as a divinity, being without sin is to be expected, since gods are, I have always assumed, without fault. However, if Mr. Thieme turns Jesus into a divine being, or makes him like the numerous other demi-gods (sons of God) of the Greeks and Romans (half divine, half human), or turns Jesus into God himself (as some believe), or if he agrees with the creed that Jesus is at once "wholly God and wholly man," then Jesus could scarcely represent humanity on the cross.

Making Jesus divine, or only somewhat divine, turns his death on the cross into a non-death, a sham, since it is well know that by definition, gods are eternal, immortal and deathless--and if there is anything the early gospels agree on it is that Jesus' death was a real event, otherwise the resurrection becomes a sham resurrection!

My suggestion to Mr. Thieme is this: consider the possibility that the tale of Jesus and Peter walking on the water is an ancient legend. Giving up the historicity of the tale seems a little thing in order to protect the historicity of the crucifixion, which is the one unquestionable historical event in the career of Jesus on which everyone agrees. But then that will raise the question: are there other legends in the Bible?


source:
Code:
http://www.news-leader.com/article/20090518/OPINIONS/905180313/1006/OPINIONS/+Bible+tale++column+assumes+historicity+of+walking+on+water


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 5:45 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 4:09 pm
Posts: 2080
The Indian and Christian Miracles of Walking on the Water

Here's an important book comparing the Buddhist and Christian motifs of the godman and/or disciple(s) walking amid or on water. As we can see, there is no reason to assume that the mythical motif's inclusion in the gospel story constitutes "history" or "biography" in any way, shape or form.

Indeed, the conclusion by this Sanskrit scholar, Dr. Brown, and many others is that the "Christian" episode is "borrowed" from the Buddhist:

Quote:
…To find this sort of most recondite handling of miraculous material at all in two separate bodies of religious literature should arouse suspicion, but to find it...attached to similar stories seems to me compelling testimony that the two stories are genetically connected.

Quote:
The Indian and Christian Miracles of Walking on the Water
by Dr. William Norman Brown

TABLE OF CONTENTS
PAGE
Preface v
Foreword ix
I. Walking on Water in Indian Literature 3
A. Religious Act 3
B. Act of Truth 6
C. Psychic Power of Levitation 13
D. The Story of Yasa and its Mutations 22
E. Summary of the Theme as it Appears in India 29
II. Walking on Water in the Non-Christian Literature of Western
Asia and Europe 33
A. The Waters Divide 34
B. The Waters Become Shallow 39
C. Walking on the Water 41
D. Summary 43
III. Walking on Water in the Christian Gospels 47
IV. Relationship between the Indian and the Christian Legends . . 53
A. No Independent Origin of the Christian Examples .... 53
B. The Indian Source of the Christian Legends 61
V. Conclusions 69
Appendix : Genealogical Table of the Early Buddhist and Christian
Legends of Walking on the Water 71
Index 75

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Why suffer from Egyptoparallelophobia, when you can read Christ in Egypt? Try it - you'll like it:

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:59 pm 
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Hercules

Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2010 9:19 pm
Posts: 63
awesome stuff :D

a quick google turns up this

Quote:
When the world-honored Buddha had left Savatthi Sariputta felt a desire to see the Lord and to hear him preach. Coming to the river where the water was deep and the current strong, he said to himself: "This stream shall not prevent me. I shall go and see the Blessed One, and he stepped upon the water which was as firm under his feet as a slab of granite. When he arrived at a place in the middle of the stream where the waves were high, Sariputta's heart gave way, and he began to sink. But rousing his faith and renewing his mental effort, he proceeded as before and reached the other bank.


an oldie but a goodie

a great metaphor of mind over matter 8)


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 9:31 pm 
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Jesus

Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 11:49 pm
Posts: 11
Walking on water was myth. It is allegory for meditation. I discovered this myself, by noting WHEN the walking occurred. It was pointedly on "FOURTH watch" --Matthew 14:25. That is 3-6 am Roman time. This is the time of meditation the world over for practitioners of Surat Shabd Yoga (www.RSSB.org), the very same technique taught by the Masters of the first century, John, Jesus and James (John 3:8 listening to the Sound or "Shabd", and Matthew 6:22, seeing the Light within, with the 'Nirat' or seeing faculty of John 6:40 (continuous present tense, of meditation). See http://www.scribd.com/doc/30633238/The- ... Ji-Maharaj


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 12:44 am 
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Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 11:45 am
Posts: 550
http://www.britishmuseum.org/research/collection_online/collection_object_details/collection_image_gallery.aspx?partid=1&assetid=1068755&objectid=466661

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The same god doing the same thing, 5th cen. BCE.
http://www.artic.edu/aic/collections/artwork/154054/print

"The Etruscan sun god Usil dashes across breaking waves."

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:21 pm 
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Hercules

Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2010 9:19 pm
Posts: 63
Awesome! thanks GA.


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