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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 4:54 am 
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Dionysus

Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:56 pm
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Hey there everyone, I will be posting information and research regarding a particular claim I like to call the overwhelming evidence argument. The argument goes somewhat like this: Jesus is most attested to historical figure of his age and there is much evidence regarding his existence. To deny this evidence one would have to also deny the existence of Confucius and the historical Buddha who was a sort of Eastern Stoic/Cynic. The evidence raised is the 42 plus sources for the historical Jesus.

I will be posting quotes, evidence and textual references along with apologetic and academic quotes from scholars/advocates of the stated argument and compiling it into a video. Might be a video series but I am not too sure, wish me luck.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:11 am 
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Location: 3rd rock from the sun
We've dealt with much of that before in Zeitgeist Refuted:

Quote:
"42 authors mention Jesus within 150 years of his life.

9 traditional authors of the N.T.:

Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Paul, author of Hebrews, James, Peter, Jude

20 early Christian writers outside the N.T.:

Clement of Rome, 2 Clement, Ignatius, Polycarp, Martyrdom of Polycarp, Didache, Barnabas, Shepard of Hermes, fragments of Papias, Justin Martyr, Aristides, Athenagoras, Theophilus of Antioch Quadratus, Aristo of Pella, Melito of Sardis, Dhognetus, Gospel of Peter, Apocalypse of Peter, Epistula Apostolorum

4 heretical writings:

Gospel of Thomas, Gospel of Truth, Apocryphon of John, treatise on resurrection

9 secular sources:

Josephus, Tacitus, Pliny the Younger, Phlegon, Lucian, Celsus, Mara Bar-Serapion, Suetonius, Thallus.

It's not always just what devotees say that is wrong it can often be what they don't say. For example, not a single one of the "42 authors" ever met Jesus while he was alive. The four canonical Gospel writers were all anonymous until the names Matthew, Mark, Luke and John were added as authors late in the 2nd century. There is no contemporary eyewitness testimony for Jesus at all whatsoever. Nobody ever wrote about Jesus during his lifetime and the canonical gospels didn't exist as we have them today until around 180CE - that is what the literary and historical records show i.e. evidence that actually exists.

Ten Reasons to Reject the Apologetic 10/42 Source Slogan

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2013 Astrotheology Calendar
The Mythicist Position
Christ in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection
Stellar House Publishing at Youtube


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:50 am 
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They allow for 150 years after the death, eh? Interesting, as I've run into a xian before who bitched at me for bringing up Apollonius of Tyana (whose full life span entirely overlaps with the alleged activities of Jesus & the apostles) because Philostratus wrote in the third century, way too late (inspite of the fact that Philostratus used Damis as a source). Well, since Apollonius just so happened to live until the turn of the century, 100 CE the typical date given for his death, 150 years after that would cover the time of Philostratus.

Anyway, I haven't read the linked thread yet, but most of those sources can be consolidated if we only count the ones independent of each other (allegedly).


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 9:53 am 
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Thor
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In researching information for my paper, I found that this point apparently comes from Gary Habermas and Mike Licona's book The Case for the Ressurection of Jesus. It's on google books. Here's the pages I found this claim on:

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/y8mdh

As I said in my paper, this argument doesn't seem to take into account that basically every one of these supposed sources is in dispute. And yet, in comparing Jesus with other figures of his time, we have at least one source for all of them that is not in dispute, which is essentially all we need in determining they existed. Licona and Habermas seem to have taken quantity over quality, which in my opinion is bad methodology. I have read David Fitzgerald's book Nailed, which has an extensive appendix dealing with many of these other sources. Granted, not all 42, but he does address the most often cited, and obviously the best examples Christians can find. His book would probably be useful in researching this. I've seen that you also have Earl Doherty's books, and I'm guessing he probably deals with many of these sources as well. Hope this helps.

-STF

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"Zeitgeist Refuted" Debunked and Exposed


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:50 pm 
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Dionysus

Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:56 pm
Posts: 280
I am currently gathering notes on the Testimonium Flavianum which includes manuscript, notes on variations in translation and the Greek texts, note's on the Arabic, Syriac and Slavonic manuscripts, their translations along with their original text, commentary, arguments for and against it's authenticity (this will be broken down into main arguments and supportive arguments). I think I may follow this format of note taking for the entire series; I will be posting the note's on each source once I am done with them one by one.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 12:57 am 
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Dionysus

Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:56 pm
Posts: 280
Hey there everyone, an update for what I am doing. I am currently in the process of reading some apologetic books regarding this claim. I am also going through some sites and taking notes because I think it might be worthwhile to see what is being said vs. what isn't being said and go from there instead of getting sources regarding the TF reference.


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