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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:02 pm 
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Dionysus

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CAMBRIDGE, Mass. — A historian of early Christianity at Harvard Divinity School has identified a scrap of papyrus that she says was written in Coptic in the fourth century and contains a phrase never seen in any piece of Scripture: “Jesus said to them, ‘My wife ...’ ”

The faded papyrus fragment is smaller than a business card, with eight lines on one side, in black ink legible under a magnifying glass. Just below the line about Jesus having a wife, the papyrus includes a second provocative clause that purportedly says, “she will be able to be my disciple.”

The finding was made public in Rome on Tuesday at an international meeting of Coptic scholars by Karen L. King, a historian who has published several books about new Gospel discoveries and is the first woman to hold the nation’s oldest endowed chair, the Hollis professor of divinity.

The provenance of the papyrus fragment is a mystery, and its owner has asked to remain anonymous. Until Tuesday, Dr. King had shown the fragment to only a small circle of experts in papyrology and Coptic linguistics, who concluded that it is most likely not a forgery. But she and her collaborators say they are eager for more scholars to weigh in and perhaps upend their conclusions...

Dr. King gave an interview and showed the papyrus fragment, encased in glass, to reporters from The New York Times, The Boston Globe and Harvard Magazine in her garret office in the tower at Harvard Divinity School last Thursday . She left the next day for Rome to deliver her paper on the find on Tuesday at the International Congress of Coptic Studies.

She repeatedly cautioned that this fragment should not be taken as proof that Jesus, the historical person, was actually married. The text was probably written centuries after Jesus lived, and all other early, historically reliable Christian literature is silent on the question, she said.

But the discovery is exciting, Dr. King said, because it is the first known statement from antiquity that refers to Jesus speaking of a wife. It provides further evidence that there was an active discussion among early Christians about whether Jesus was celibate or married, and which path his followers should choose.

“This fragment suggests that some early Christians had a tradition that Jesus was married,” Dr. King said. “There was, we already know, a controversy in the second century over whether Jesus was married, caught up with a debate about whether Christians should marry and have sex.”


Dr. King first learned about what she calls “The Gospel of Jesus’s Wife” when she received an e-mail in 2010 from a private collector who asked her to translate it. Dr. King, 58, specializes in Coptic literature, and has written books on the Gospel of Judas, the Gospel of Mary of Magdala, Gnosticism and women in antiquity.

The owner, who has a collection of Greek, Coptic and Arabic papyri, is not willing to be identified by name, nationality or location, because, Dr. King said, “He doesn’t want to be hounded by people who want to buy this.”

When, where or how the fragment was discovered is unknown. The collector acquired it in a batch of papyri in 1997 from the previous owner, a German. It came with a handwritten note in German that names a professor of Egyptology in Berlin, now deceased, and cited him calling the fragment “the sole example” of a text in which Jesus claims a wife.

The owner carried the fragment to the Divinity School in December 2011 and left it with Dr. King. She said she was initially suspicious, but it looked promising enough to explore. Three months later, she carried the fragment in her red handbag to New York to show it to two colleagues, both papyrologists: Roger Bagnall, director of the Institute for the Study of the Ancient World, at New York University, and AnneMarie Luijendijk, an associate professor of religion at Princeton University...

It was written in Coptic, an Egyptian language that uses Greek characters — and more precisely, in Sahidic Coptic, a dialect from southern Egypt, Dr. Luijendijk said in an interview.

What convinced them it was probably genuine was the fading of the ink on the papyrus fibers, and traces of ink adhered to the bent fibers at the torn edges. The back side is so faint that only five words are visible, one only partly: “my moth[er],” “three,” “forth which.”

“It would be impossible to forge,” said Dr. Luijendijk, who contributed to Dr. King’s paper.

Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/19/us/hi ... emityn.www


What do you all think? By the way, I didn't know where exactly to put this but I find the whole ordeal to be pretty interesting. Also I have marked the parts that should be emphasized in bold.

Edit: Forgot to add the source.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:51 pm 
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Dionysus

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http://www.hds.harvard.edu/sites/hds.ha ... t_0917.pdf

Just found the paper that discusses this papyri so have a look.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:17 pm 
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I was going to post a quote of what you already provided above in bold so, no point. I think that pretty much sums it up, which I'm glad she did. Perhaps, it will keep the Christian apologists from going off their meds so to speak or, for now. You watch, we may have to remind them of that quote by Christmas time. Of course, it could be a completely different Jesus and not the NT Jesus.

Or, maybe the Christians won't bite at all since the bible doesn't say Jesus was married. This whole thing has always been in my mind because the religious right claims to be all about family even though Jesus had none of his own. I've always wondered to myself, "Well, where Jesus' family today - where's his genealogical tree? The Jews kept some pretty serious records of such things so, where's Jesus'?"

New Discovery Reveals Jesus Was Married, Researcher Claims

The Gospel of Jesus' Wife

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Christ in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:08 am 
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Hercules

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If the biblical Jesus had existed, Jewish law from Deuteronomy 23:2 would not allow him to get married, because he was considered to be a mamzer, or bastard, due to his not having a Jewish father.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:20 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2012 1:13 pm
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... and there is a short video available on youtube titled "Jesus said to them, my wife"...

I have always wondered why it is that only "fragments" have survived and not the whole manuscripts... Any chance to get more information about the origin of the "fragment" from the owners?


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:43 am 
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"Jesus said to them, my wife."

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2013 Astrotheology Calendar
The Mythicist Position
Christ in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection
Stellar House Publishing at Youtube


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:38 pm 
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Some of you asked for it, so here it is! My hot-off-the-presses analysis of this papyrus fragment.

Quote:
Did Jesus have a wife? So says an ancient Egyptian papyrus

In the press release of this papyrus discovery, Dr. King "repeatedly cautioned that this fragment should not be taken as proof that Jesus, the historical person, was actually married." Nor should this fragment be taken as proof that Jesus was a historical person in the first place. So long as these artifacts are interpreted through the false lens of historicity, they will not make sense.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 4:43 pm 
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Scholars Suspect 'Jesus Wife' Artifact Is A Fake

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2013 Astrotheology Calendar
The Mythicist Position
Christ in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection
Stellar House Publishing at Youtube


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