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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:18 pm 
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Here is a new thread about the number 40, which is used in ancient religion and mythology quite frequently.

Starting with the Bible uses:

Biblical Expression: 40 Days and 40 Nights

They list several potential meanings and options but, this one really stands out:

Quote:
"The solar year can be nearly perfectly measured by keeping track of every 40th day. Due to the fact that this article is already way too long, I’ll just sum it up and say the solar year being 365.24219 days can be reached with only an average of a 2 second difference between the actual solar year and the calendar solar year using this “40 day cycle” method of calculating the year. Celtic-Christians appeared to have used this cycle with the celebration of Passover/Easter associated with an 84 year cycle (84 years being near perfectly divisible by 40 days: 767.009 cycles). The Nebra Sky Disk dated back to the Bronze Age in Germany also seems to indicate during this period the 40 day calendar counting was already well known in that era. The Ancient Egyptians were also known to use this 40 day time tracking cycle."

Below we have a Christian website listing for us all the references to the number 40:

Quote:
Instances in the Bible where God made major changes and transformations after the period of 40

It rained for 40 days and 40 nights when God wanted to cleanse the world and start over.
(Gen 7:12 KJV) And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.

Noah waited another 40 days after it rained before he opened a window in the Ark.
(Gen 8:6 KJV) And it came to pass at the end of forty days, that Noah opened the window of the ark which he had made:

Embalming required 40 days (although this was an Egyptian custom, the Egyptians recognized the period of 40 for the preparation of going into a new life, what they called the afterlife)
(Gen 50:3 KJV) And forty days were fulfilled for him; for so are fulfilled the days of those which are embalmed: and the Egyptians mourned for him threescore and ten days.

Moses was on the mountain with God for 40 days (TWICE)
(Exo 24:18 KJV) And Moses went into the midst of the cloud, and gat him up into the mount: and Moses was in the mount forty days and forty nights.
(Exo 34:28-29 KJV) And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.
(Deu 10:10 NIV) Now I had stayed on the mountain forty days and nights, as I did the first time, and the LORD listened to me at this time also. It was not his will to destroy you.

Moses' face shone after the 40 days on the mountain.
(Exo 34:29 KJV) And it came to pass, when Moses came down from mount Sinai with the two tables of testimony in Moses' hand, when he came down from the mount, that Moses wist not that the skin of his face shone while he talked with him.

It took the spies 40 days to search out the promised land and bring back fruit
(Num 13:25 KJV) And they returned from searching of the land after forty days.

The Israelites spent 40 years in the wilderness, one year for each day they explored the Promised Land.
(Exo 16:35 KJV) And the children of Israel did eat manna forty years, until they came to a land inhabited; they did eat manna, until they came unto the borders of the land of Canaan.
(Num 14:33-34 NIV) Your children will be shepherds here for forty years, suffering for your unfaithfulness, until the last of your bodies lies in the desert. {34} For forty years--one year for each of the forty days you explored the land-you will suffer for your sins and know what it is like to have me against you.

Goliath came for forty days before being killed by David
(1 Sam 17:16 NLT) For forty days, twice a day, morning and evening, the Philistine giant strutted in front of the Israelite army.

Elijah strengthened by one angelic meal went forty days to Mount Horeb where the Lord passed by and he heard the voice of God
(1 Ki 19:8 KJV) And he arose, and did eat and drink, and went in the strength of that meat forty days and forty nights unto Horeb the mount of God.

Jonah warned the City of Nineveh they had 40 days until God would overthrow the city. The people repented in those 40 days and God spared the city.
(Jonah 3:4 and 10 KJV) And Jonah began to enter into the city a day's journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown.
And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

Jesus fasted for 40 days in the wilderness
(Mat 3:17 KJV) And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
(Mat 4:1-2 KJV) Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil. {2} And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungered.

Jesus was seen in the earth 40 days after His crucifixion
(Acts 1:3 NIV) After his suffering, he showed himself to these men and gave many convincing proofs that he was alive. He appeared to them over a period of forty days and spoke about the kingdom of God.

Quote:
"The Ascension of Jesus ... is the Christian teaching found in the New Testament that the resurrected Jesus was taken up to heaven in his resurrected body, in the presence of eleven of his apostles, occurring 40 days after the resurrection."

By a former Pastor of 20 years: Did Jesus Really Rise From The Dead?

The Significance of the Number 40

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- from http://www.creation-answers.com/forty.htm

The Twelve in the Bible and Ancient Mythology

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:14 pm 
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The number 40 is used repeatedly in ancient religion/mythology, so I'd like to collect its various meanings here. For example, in antiquity, it was said that the seed requires 40 days to germinate fully. There is purportedly an Egyptian myth in which 40 days after her birth Isis is impregnated by Osiris, the foliage god, who is green, evidently in emulation of photosynthesis.

The person who brought up this subject on Facebook, after I posted one of my Exodus-debunking threads, remarks the following (edited):

Quote:
Herco de Boer: The first time I came across the number 40 used in the Bible was that it represents the letter M in square Hebrew language. M represents water and in Gen 1 it represents chaos as well. If you read the Bible carefully you will notice that water was never created - it was there already, just like Elohim, it already existed.... So the flood lasted 40 days and 40 nights, and Noah waited another 40 days before opening the ark. Moses was on the mountain for 40 days, twice....

http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/40.html

Another website is http://www.40day.com/40_in_the_bible.html

It mentions that according to Egyptian custom, embalming required 40 days which is also found in Gen. 50:3. The Bible is all about symbolism and should be understood in that sense....

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 Post subject: Lent and the Sun?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:08 pm 
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Hi,

Was wondering if there is an astrological origin to the 40 days/Satan tempting Jesus story?
I mean, I know that Horus also fasted for 40 days, etc. but does this idea come from the
sun's ecliptical journey through Capricorn and Aquarius/Pisces? And if so, how? why 40? and why
a ''temptation''?

Also, was Ash Wednesday originally a pagan ritual?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 4:25 pm 
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If Jesus was imagined as giving up the ghost at 3pm on Good Friday, and coming back to life at 7am on Easter Sunday, that is forty hours in hell.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:24 am 
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As relates to Egypt, and possibly to the story of Noah, I found the links below which state that at the inundation, i.e. the flood, of the Nile, when the water stopped rising and reached its peak, it stayed at that level for approximately 40 days, and after that it began receding back to low level. They also suspended water in their irrigation basins for exactly 40 days during that time of peak flood, which allowed extra soil saturation.

Also, Pliny the Elder wrote in Natural History, Book 18, ch. 10 that grains ripen within 40 days after their blossoms wilt:
Quote:
When the blossom is off in corn, the stalk gradually thickens, and it ripens within forty days at the most. The same is the case, too, with the bean, but the chick-pea takes a much shorter time to ripen; indeed, it is fit for gathering within forty days from the time that it is sown. Millet, panic, sesame, and all the summer grains are ripe within forty days after blossoming with considerable variations, of course, in reference to soil and weather. Thus, in Egypt, we find barley cut at the end of six months, and wheat at the end of seven, from the time of sowing.


Now, obviously the number 40 was arbitrary and just a nice number to round off to, as these natural phenomenon would not always be 40 days exactly on the dot (Strabo stated that it was a little over 40 days at the time he wrote). But it obviously had ritual and symbolic significance, given that the inundation of the Nile and the sprouting of grain was tied into the resurrection myth of Osiris.
So not only do we have a "flood" that lasted for 40 days, much like Noah's myth (written in Genesis, which was written long after this irrigation system was already in place in Egypt), but we also have here 40 days tied in with a god who resurrected and ascended to heaven. The flood waters follow the heliacal rising of Orion and Sirius, i.e., Osiris and Isis. So when Isis brings Osiris back from the dead, this brings back life to the Nile, and by extension, life to all of Egypt. Since the flood waters peak and sojourn in the Nile for about 40 days, it might be that Osiris was likewise thought to have sojourned on earth for 40 days before setting off again, much like Christ sojourned for 40 days after his return from death as well, before setting off for the afterlife.

One ritual that seems to be tied into this was whenever a new Apis bull was born (which, as we all know, was a "ba" or manifestation of Osiris, hence its rebirth was one manner in which Osiris returned) it would be transported to Nilopolis and ritually dedicated there for 40 days, after which it is sailed down the Nile to Memphis. Diodorus of Sicily described it in his Library of History, Book 1, ch. 6:
Quote:
To this may be further added, what is in use among them concerning the sacred ox, which they call Apis. After the splendid funeral of Apis is over, those priests that have the charge of the business, seek out another calf, as like the former as possibly they can find; and when they have found one, and end is put to all further mourning and lamentation; and such priests as are appointed for that purpose, lead the young ox through the city of Nile, and feed him forty days. Then they put him on a barge, wherein is a golden cabin, and so transport him as a god to Memphis, and place him in Vulcan's[Ptah] grove. During the forty days before mentioned, none but women are admitted to see him, who being placed full in his view, pluck up their coats, and shew their privy parts. Afterwards, they are forbid to come into the sight of this new god. For the adoration of this ox, they give this reason. They say, that the soul of Osiris passed into an ox; and therefore, whenever the ox is dedicated, to this very day, the spirit of Osiris is infused into one ox after another, to posterity.


One other natural phenomenon I found that was tied into 40 days was the Etesian winds, which were said to blow for 40 days after the rising of Sirius/Sothis/Isis. Apollonius of Rhodes wrote in Argonautica 2.448-499:
Quote:
And on this account it is that Etesian winds from Zeus cool the land for forty days, and in Ceos even now the priests offer sacrifices before the rising of the Dog-star.


Landscapes in History: Design and Planning in the Eastern and Western Traditions by Philip Pregill, Nancy Volkman, p.61. John Wiley & Sons, 1999.
Quote:
In its natural state the Nile floods northward, filling the basins and flooding the land to a depth of 3 to 5 feet; after the drenching of the soil, the flood waters remain about forty days. As the flood waters recede, the basins remain filled, sufficient to irrigate surrounding levees, which are suitable for cultivation by October or November.


Saad Nassar and Mahmoud Mansour, "Agriculture: the past and the task ahead," in Egypt in the Twenty First Century: Challenges for Development, ed. M. Riad El-Ghonemy, p.157. RoutledgeCurzon, 2003.
Quote:
Under the very old basin system of irrigation (Heyad), the land was divided into large basin areas fed from the Nile at the beginning of the flood season in August and left for about forty days before sowing seeds in the silt left. Thus land was used only for the production of a single crop per year.


The Ottoman Empire and the World-Economy by Huri Islamogu-Inan, p. 213. Cambridge University Press.
Quote:
The basic system of irrigation had been used in Egypt since the time of the Pharaohs. The topography of the Nile Valley resembles the back of a leaf: the land slopes down gradually from the high land lying along the banks of the river and canals toward the desert. The high land along the banks of the river was flooded roughly once every 15-20 years when the annual Nile flood was unusually high. The remainder of the land, comprising some 75 per cent of the cultivated area in the Delta and nearly 90 per cent in the valley,7 was divided into basins by a system of dikes, some running perpendicular to the Nile, others parallel to it. Canals dug through the high land along the banks allowed the rasing flood waters to flow into three basins. The dikes trapped the sediment-laden water, which then soaked slowly into the fields. After standing for some 40 days, the water was allowed either to drain back into the Nile or to flood on into the basin lower down.


Alan B. Lloyd, Herodotus Book II: Commentary 1-98, p.75. E.J. Brill, 1976-94.
Quote:
1. Rei land was irrigated by the basin system which, in the simplest term, involved building a complex of dykes, one parallel to the river and as close to it as possible and several other at right angles to it, forming a series of contiguous basins which in modern times could vary between 500 and 48,000 acres. Through these the basin canal from the Nile would run, its head blocked by an earthen bank. When the Nile had risen to a satisfactory level, this bank was cut and water was admitted into the canal which flooded the basins in succession. Once D had been flooded, the sluice gates to it would be shut, C would then be filled and so on until all the basins were adequately flooded to a depth of 0.5-2.0 m. The water was allowed to stand for c. 40 days and was then let out through special exits, beginning in modern times c. 15th October in Upper Egypt and progressively later as one moved North where it might not be let out until c. 11th November.


Food and Inflation in the Middle East, 1940-45, Issue 9 by Edward M.H. Lloyd, p.24. Stanford University Press, 1956.
Quote:
There are now two systems of irrigation. The older "basin" system, under which the land is divided into banked areas varying from 2,000 to 20,000 hectares, is said to have been invented by King Mena about 4000 B.C. Water is admitted during the flood period to an average depth of three feet and is left on the land for about 40 days. After the water has been run off, the seed is broadcast on the silt that is left behind.


M. Fitzmaurice "The Nile Reservoir, Assuan," in Minutes of Proceedings of the Institution of Civil Engineers, Vol. 152, ed. J.H.T. Tudsbery, p.73. 1903.
Quote:
There are two systems of irrigation in Egypt--basin irrigation and perennial irrigation. In the basin system the waters of the Nile when in flood are turned on the the land, which for this purpose is divided into large areas called basins, and there the valuable fertilizing mud is deposited. The water remains on the land to an average depth of about 1-50 metre (5 feet) for about 40 days, and is then turned into the river again. Under this system one crop is obtained in the year. With the perennial system the land is irrigated all the year round;


Naser-e Khosraw, c.1050 CE, in Traveling Through Egypt: From 450 B.C. to the Twentieth Century, ed. Deborah Manley and Sahar Abdel-Hakim, p.8. The American University in Cairo Press, 2004-08.
Quote:
The water usually rises for forty days until it has risen eighteen cubits. Then it remains at that level for another forty days, neither increasing nor decreasing. Thereupon it gradually decreases for another forty days until it reaches the winter level. When the water begins to recede, the people follow it down, planting as the land is left dry. All their agriculture, winter and summer, follows this pattern. They need no other source of water.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 4:41 pm 
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The retrograde period of Venus lasts 40 days. Every 1.6 years, and on nearly the same date every eight years, Venus suddenly stops moving forward in the evening sky and falls backward for forty days, 'falling from heaven' to become the Morning Star, conventionally called Lucifer. This fall from grace will next occur from 10 December 2013 to 20 January 2014.

Lent has forty days from Ash Wednesday to Easter Sunday, not counting Sundays.

Hesiod wrote in Works and Days "(ll. 383-404) "When the Pleiades, daughters of Atlas, are rising, begin your harvest, and your ploughing when they are going to set. Forty nights and days they are hidden and appear again as the year moves round, when first you sharpen your sickle."

These dates have changed by six weeks since Hesiod was written down due to precession of the equinox. The Pleiades are zodiac stars, and this comment from Hesiod means the ancients held that all the zodiac stars are invisible for forty days behind the sun.

The period of heliacal invisibility of non-zodiac stars varies by latitude. In Egypt, Sirius is invisible for seventy days from the time of its last evening sighting to when first you can see by the dawn's early light. In the USA and Europe, the heliacal period of Sirius is much longer, whereas in southern Australia Sirius can be seen every night, either at dawn or dusk.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 12:31 pm 
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Why does Venus retrograde every 1.6 years? I don't understand how it appears to ''fall'' because of this? Isn't its axial rotation always retrograding at all times?


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 5:21 pm 
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bdrummen wrote:
Why does Venus retrograde every 1.6 years? I don't understand how it appears to ''fall'' because of this? Isn't its axial rotation always retrograding at all times?



bd, we are talking about what is visible from the earth. Venus appears to gradually rise in the evening sky, and then suddenly go backwards for 40 days, becoming the morning star.

The reason this happens every 1.6 years is due to the relative orbital periods of Venus and the earth. The retrograde period occurs when Venus catches up to the earth and passes between the earth and the sun, known as the inferior conjunction.

There are 13 Venus years in 8 Earth years. This means there are 2.6 Venus years in 1.6 Earth years. This means that every 1.6 earth years, Venus 'laps' us, and is visible in the same spot in the sky. So the fall that we will see in December this year has happened every 1.6 years since the planetary orbits stabilised. The Earth-Venus relationship has a number of fascinating astronomical facts. 8 and 13 are Fibonacci numbers, so the golden ratio phi is encoded in the relations through the fact that the conjunction points form a near-perfect five point star.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspects_of_Venus shows that the period between stations of Venus as evening and morning star is actually 41 days, although I understand it was conventionally estimated as 40 days because it is hard to calculate the precise moment of turn from naked eye observation alone.

And here is a diagram of the Earth-Venus conjunction pattern that I made a few years ago, showing the five point orbital star.
Attachment:
Venus Inferior Conjunction.JPG
Venus Inferior Conjunction.JPG [ 138.13 KiB | Viewed 1931 times ]


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 6:21 pm 
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Wow :shock: absolutely fascinating stuff! Makes total sense to me now and makes me curious about how the other planets work and what their patterns might do as well. Do any of the other planets' conjunctions make cool patterns? Kinda funny how Venus is called Lucifer and its conjunction also makes a pentagram lol I love coming to this website, I always learn the coolest things!

Oh btw, found this cool video on youtube about it: :P



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 7:54 pm 
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bdrummen wrote:
Wow :shock: absolutely fascinating stuff! Makes total sense to me now and makes me curious about how the other planets work and what their patterns might do as well. Do any of the other planets' conjunctions make cool patterns? Kinda funny how Venus is called Lucifer and its conjunction also makes a pentagram lol I love coming to this website, I always learn the coolest things!

Oh btw, found this cool video on youtube about it: :P http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFDBeTdPKig


Thanks bd, you are very welcome. Your question about what retrograde means was a good one. Love the youtube video, it illustrates what I said about how Venus forms the five point star by lapping the earth's orbit. And I believe the magical symbolism of the pentacle was linked to Venus - this may go back to ancient Pythagorean observation.

There is a much bigger harmonic pattern involving the whole solar system and the precession of the equinox that I have discussed here previously, forming an amazing twelve point star. I recently posted a thread about this called wave function of the solar system, and would like to write up as an article if anyone is interested.

Here is a picture I made to present the whole solar system pattern over 6000 years.
Attachment:
Throb of the Sun 6000 Years.png
Throb of the Sun 6000 Years.png [ 61.66 KiB | Viewed 1923 times ]


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 2:57 am 
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Fascinating stuff indeed. Excellent post, Robert.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 1:54 pm 
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The Symbolism of the Number 40 in Ancient Religion and Mythology

Wow! That's a lotta great stuff, folks. The Nebra Disk 40 is fascinating, as are other ruminations here. I'm glad I asked to have this thread started. This discussion began on Facebook, with Herco de Boer commenting about the use of the number "40" in the Bible as an indicator of a fictional tale. A rabid skeptic started smartmouthing me for asking Herco to flesh out the symbolism of the number 40.

This person was very hateful, basically attacking me for saying that there is science in ancient religion and mythology. I got a good taste of the "atheist" mentality that has been dismissing with such virulent prejudice our interest in these subjects of the hidden or suppressed meanings behind various religious and mythological motifs. Within this nonbelieving fascism, we are supposed to throw out all religious and mythological ideation as having no value whatsoever. Certainly, according to this mindset, there is absolutely no science whatsoever to any of it. The misunderstanding of what I was getting at included implying that I was circulating Christian apologies that the "science" in the Bible proves it is the word of God. Obviously, I neither said nor implied any such thing, but that's apparently the kneejerk and dismissive reaction to us contending for scientific facts being passed along symbolically via religious and mythological ideation.

I pointed out that the word "science" means "to know," and the study of religious and mythological symbolism (a la Joseph Campbell, for example) most assuredly is a body of knowledge, per the dictionary definitions of "science" here:

Quote:
4. systematized knowledge in general.

5. knowledge, as of facts or principles; knowledge gained by systematic study.

When I insisted that I would continue to study what I study and that this individual was on the wrong FB page if he was simply interested in disparaging all religion, he next began to insult me, of course, and posted some trashy Christian apologist video that slanders me and spreads lies about these issues. So, that's an FYI of what we are up against with the "militant atheist" or fanatical skeptic wing, which is another side of the same coin with the Christian apologists, both of whom will use each others' work to abuse and derogate those of us who have an interest in these subjects. You see, we have united the theists and atheists - against us. :twisted:

In any event, below are some symbolic 40s from my books. We can see that the number does indeed represent scientific observations of the natural world, included in stories as a mnemonic device to pass along this important information. It is difficult to understand why various individuals are so hellbent against understanding myth as a highly useful mnemonic device. It seems nearly everyone has already forgotten the late great Campbell, with his wonderful discussions of symbolism and meaning behind myth. Perhaps it is time for a re-run of his series on PBS, since so many people have been born since then and do not have a clue about his work. (Meaning that they are non-experts, of course, on the subject of mythology, but simply wish to dismiss it offhand, evidently in an attempt to cover up their ignorance of this vast body of knowledge.)

The Christ Conspiracy

On p. 121 of The Christ Conspiracy, I wrote:

Quote:
Quetzalcoatl was also designated the morning star, was tempted and fasted for 40 days, and was consumed in a eucharist using a proxy, named after Quetzalcoatl. As Walker says:

Quote:
This devoured Savior, closely watched by his ten or twelve guards, embodied the god Quetzalcoatl, who was born of a virgin, slain in atonement for primal sin, and whose Second Coming was confidently expected. He was often represented as a trinity signified by three crosses, a large one between the smaller ones. Father Acosta naively said, “It is strange that the devil after his manner hath brought a Trinity into idolatry.” His church found it all too familiar, and long kept his book as one of its secrets.

There's an entire section on this 40-day fasting/tempting motif, on p. 194:

Quote:
The Forty Days and Temptation in the Wilderness

Many savior gods, including Buddha, Horus, Manu, Quetzalcoatl and Zoroaster, were tempted in the wilderness as a standard part of the mythos. As demonstrated, the Jesus-Satan story is a rehash of the tale about the Egyptian "twins" Horus-Set, and this temptation myth represents the struggle between light and dark, day and night, and winter and summer. Churchward explains these elements of the mythos:

Quote:
The Gospel story of the Devil taking Jesus up into an exceeding high mountain from which all the kingdoms of the world and the glory of them could be seen, and of the contention on the summit is originally a legend of the Astronomical Cult, which has been converted into history in the Gospels. In the Ritual…the struggle is described as taking place upon the mount, i.e. "the mountain in the midst of the Earth, or the mountain of Amenta which reaches up to the sky," and which in the Solar Cult stood at the point of the equinox, where the conflict was continued and the twins were reconciled year after year. The equinox was figured at the summit of the mount on the ecliptic and the scene of strife was finally configurated as a fixture in the constellation of the Gemini, the sign of the twin-brothers, who for ever fought and wrestled "up and down the garden," first one, then the other, being uppermost during the two halves of the year, or of night and day.… This contention in the wilderness was one of the great battles of Set and Horus.… Forty days was the length of time in Egypt that was reckoned for the grain in the earth before it sprouted visibly from the ground. It was a time of scarcity and fasting in Egypt, the season of Lent… The fasting of Jesus in the desert represents the absence of food that is caused by Set in the wilderness during the forty days' burial for the corn, and Satan asking Jesus to turn the stones into bread is a play on the symbol of Set, which in one representation was rendered as "a stone." The contest of the personal Christ with a personal Satan in the New Testament is no more historical fact than the contest between the seed of the woman and the serpent of evil in the Old. Both are mythical and both are Egyptian Mysteries.

This battle between Set and Horus was also re-enacted upon the earth, as the stellar, lunar and solar cult priests and their followers have fought among themselves for millennia.

This particular part of the mythos was rejected by early Christian fathers as being "fabulous," but, like many other elements of the solar myth, it was later added in order to make the godman more competitive, "to show that Christ Jesus was proof against all temptations, that he too, as well as Buddha and others, could resist the powers of the prince of evil."

On p. 212 of Christ Con, I discuss the reason for the numerical discrepancies in the New Testament accounts of Christ's ascension:

Quote:
Like so many other biblical tales, the accounts of the ascension are contradictory, with Luke placing it three days after and Acts 40 days after the resurrection. These discrepancies are explainable not as history but within the mythos, representing the lunar resurrection at the autumnal equinox and the solar at the vernal equinox.

On p. 312, again I relate the words of Albert Churchward, references that will not be included in the revised edition of Christ Con because one of his descendants is extremely hateful and abusive:

Quote:
Of the ritualistic wandering in the wilderness, Churchward says:

Quote:
The Struggle of Set and Horus in the desert lasted forty days, as commemorated in the forty days of the Egyptian Lent, during which time Set, as the power of drought and sterility, made war on Horus in the water and the buried germinating grain.… These forty days have been extended into forty years, and confessedly so by the Jews.

Suns of God: Krishna, Buddha and Christ Unveiled

On p. 13 of my book Suns of God, I write:

Quote:
The Mexican fast for 40 days as a tribute to the god was essentially the same as the fasting of Jesus "forty days upon a mountain."

I also quote Bonwick on p. 89:

Quote:
Like Jesus, Osiris was once believed to have incarnated as a human savior who died and was resurrected for the good of mankind:

Quote:
…Osiris has a human development. He is God in heaven and hell, but once appeared as man on earth…

He is one of the Saviours or Deliverers of Humanity, to be found in almost all lands. As such, he is born into the world. He came, as a benefactor, to relieve man of trouble, to supply his wants…. In his efforts to do good, he encounters evil…. He is killed…. Osiris is buried. His tomb was the object of pilgrimage for thousands of years. But he did not rest in his grave. At the end of three days, or forty, he rose again, and ascended of heaven….

As we can see, there is good reason to examine the symbolism of the 40 in ancient religion and mythology, revealing its nature-worshipping/astrotheological meanings.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 7:18 pm 
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Acharya wrote:
Quetzalcoatl was also designated the morning star, was tempted and fasted for 40 days

Hi Acharya - this prompted me to look at Quetzalcoatl Venus references, and I found this wonderful paper:
Quote:
Quetzalcoatl: Beyond the Feathered Serpent
Alberto Mendo
Mentors: Professor Nimachia Hernandez, Professor Jose Rabasa
Abstract: Epistemological differences between researchers and their subjects can have significant impacts on cross-cultural studies. This project examines how methodologies sympathetic to Native paradigms can inform our understandings of Native cultures. I test this query in the context of Nahuatl culture through a case study of Quetzalcoatl...

Mendo explains
Quote:
"Understanding the story of Quetzalcoatl as a system of relationships reveals the second level to be a lesson in Nahuatl astronomy relating the cycles of Venus as both Morning and Evening Stars. The narrative of Quetzalcoatl symbolically duplicates the celestial movements of Venus. This relationship begins with the transformation of Quetzalcoatl into Morning Star on Ce Acatl: ...Ce Acatl marks both the date of birth of Quetzalcoatl and the day when Venus reappears on the same position in the eastern horizon once every eight years (Malmstrom 182). Ce Acatl thus designates a starting point for both Quetzalcoatl, and the orbital relationship between Earth and Venus."


As I noted above, Venus appears to travel backward (retrograde) for forty days in every 1.6 years. Therefore it appears the linkage of Saviour Myths to a forty day period of reflection, as we now have in Lent, has a cosmic reflection in the reversal and fall of Venus observed in the sky.

Mendo makes the central reconstructive point, also discussed at length by Castaneda, that
Quote:
"methodologies tailored to Native epistemological paradigms can expand current understandings of the cosmologies and philosophies of Nahuatl peoples."


In this case, the exploration of Quetzalcoatl as Venus maps directly to the temptation of Jesus by Satan in the Wilderness, and to the battle between Horus and Set. The Egyptian context also maps to Osiris:
Quote:
"According to Bonwick (Egyptian Belief and Modern Thought) Osiris did not remain in the grave, but at the end of three, or forty, days rose again and ascended to Heaven and thenceforth became the judge of the dead and the hope of a future life... The festival of Osiris lasted forty days, the number of days of Jesus' temptation. " (source)

The epistemological problem described by Mendo in terms of indigeneity is like what Acharya explains above in her debates with atheists who lack sympathy for native paradigms. In this case, the accurate native paradigm includes regular observation of Venus, with its forty day reversal encoded in Saviour Myths.

After Venus has gone backwards for forty days, it starts a very slow forward movement against the stars, rather like a rebirth. Astronomically, this forward movement begins the passage of Venus behind the Sun, from earth view, before its heliacal appearance as Evening Star on nearly the same dates five times every eight years.

Mendo describes how the indigenous Mayan myth treated this observation of the Venus cycle, (with some small edits by me in [] brackets:
Quote:
"Level 3: The final level becomes increasingly abstract and incorporates additional aspects of Quetzalcoatl. Cyclical relationships between Earth and Venus establish the basis for the Nahuatl reckoning of time, and these relationships are expressed symbolically through Quetzalcoatl.

As Quetzalcoatl, time is transformed into a process of constant becoming and reciprocal existence. To understand this point we must first consider some general dynamics between Earth and Venus. The specific dynamics between the orbits of Venus and Earth cause Venus to re-appear as Morning Star at [five] positions on the eastern horizon over an eight-year period.

Venus re-appears as Morning Star at any given point on the eastern horizon only once every eight years. Every eight Earth years (equal to five synodic Venus cycles) the orbits of these two planets attain the same relative positions as in the past eight-year cycle. This event is marked by the reappearance of Morning Star at the same position on the eastern horizon as eight years prior (Malmstrom 180).

The result of this relationship is that Venus and Earth are placed in a coincidental orbital ratio of [13:]8:5. This [Fibonacci phi] ratio defines the relationship between Earth and Venus, and is the basic increment upon which the 104-year Huehuetiliztli is based. The Huehuetiliztli [104=13x8] is a complete Nahuatl unit of time measurement consisting of two 52-year Xiuhmolpilli (Ramos 288) [hence the 104 panels on each face of the pyramid at Chichen-Itza]. The beginning of each 104-year Huehuetiliztli cycle is marked by the reappearance of Venus as Morning Star (ibid. 272)
.

This material suggests we can consider the Evening Star and Morning Star, the reflecting twin incarnations of Venus whose turning points are separated by forty days, as cosmic allegory for the Feathered Rainbow Snake, Quetzalcoatl.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 8:14 pm 
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Excellent stuff, Robert! It would seem that the 40-day fast has a number of meanings, including the germination of the seed, indicating a "fast" or "famine" during that time, as well as the cycles of Venus. One can understand easily the wonderment of the ancients in discovering these various numerical correspondences - such regularity would certainly imply divinity and sacredness.

What we can be assured of is that the figure of Quetzalcoatl is not a "historical personage," as was held by later groups, evidently based on the confounding of the god with the various kings who reigned in his name. Hence, his story, so similar in many important aspects with that of Jesus, is not the biography of a "real person," and neither, therefore, would be that of Jesus.

And, again, we are left with an astronomical and nature-worshipping archetype that can be found in different parts of the world precisely because it does have to do with nature, rather than a single godman or numerous avatars/incarnations of the same divine "person" running around the globe.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 10:26 pm 
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Acharya wrote:
Quetzalcoatl is not a "historical personage,"

Indigenous spirituality recognises that myth is allegory for natural divinity. Corrupting this original high vision into fictional historical stories is the work of empires. Resenting the autonomy of local people, empires such as Rome and the Aztecs stupify the cosmic vision into the degraded imaginary tales such as we have in the Bible.

Today is the First Sunday in Lent. Here is my commentary on Luke 4:1-13, the temptation of Jesus Christ by Satan in the wilderness.
Luke 4 King James Version wrote:
1 And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost
Consider the temptation allegory as description of the observed movement of the planet Venus in the sky, with this fullness of spirit marking the time of highest visibility of Venus just before its fall.
KJV wrote:
returned from Jordan,
The Jordan is the river constellation Eridanus, a stream of stars flowing from Orion to the south, not easily seen from Europe.
KJV wrote:
and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness, 2 Being forty days tempted of the devil.
The forty day fall of Venus is its forty day retrograde period every 1.6 years as it stops moving forward and plunges in front of the sun, shifting from its position as evening star to morning star, in the Bible called Lucifer or light bringer, and mentioned at Revelation 2:28; and 22:16.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Hea ... _of_Isaiah says "Parallels are drawn to the passage in Isaiah 14:4-17 that mentions the Morning star that had "fallen from heaven" and was "cast down to the earth". In verse 12 of this passage, the Hebrew word that referred to the morning star was translated into Latin as Lucifer."
KJV wrote:
And in those days he did eat nothing: and when they were ended, he afterward hungered.
Venus in retrograde backtracks past stars that it has already passed, so does not ‘eat’ new stars in this time, and only starts doing so again after the 40 days fall, when it begins moving forward again as the morning star.
Satan wrote:
3 And the devil said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread.
Actual physical miracles are impossible, so the insistence on them is Satanic and evil.
Jesus wrote:
4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.
Signs and wonders are only useful as guides to intelligent understanding, which is conveyed through language. Jesus condemns literalism as a devilish temptation, calling instead for concepts to be the focus of faith, readily interpreted as an astrotheological injunction to discuss how observation can be conveyed through allegory.
Satan wrote:
5 And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. 6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it. 7 If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.
Venus or Lucifer is high in the sky where it can see all the kingdoms at once. It seems the devil is suggesting that if only Jesus supports the delusions of literalism, he can have all power. This delusion is precisely what the church did to establish Christendom, worshiping the false letter and ignoring the living spirit, seen in nature.
Jesus wrote:
8 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
With the same words used to condemn Peter the catholic rock, Jesus condemns the imaginary fiction of invention, saying only what is real is worthy of worship.
Satan wrote:
9 And he brought him to Jerusalem, and set him on a pinnacle of the temple, and said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down from hence: 10 For it is written, He shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee: 11 And in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
Venus is at the pinnacle of the sky, and is cast down for forty days every 1.6 years, before being borne up by the hands of the stars or angels once it returns to forward motion.
Jesus wrote:

12 And Jesus answering said unto him, It is said, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
Lies are seductive, but the truth is incorruptible. Humans are tempted by lies, but the idea that a literal Jesus Christ figure can fall from the high point, as Venus does, puts a parable in place of the truth and fails to see the deeper meaning.
Satan wrote:
13 And when the devil had ended all the temptation, he departed from him for a season.
In the context of the fall from grace, the authors could see that the pervasive stupidity of the world would take the devil’s lies as Gospel truth, so while the imagined Christ himself could resist and understand, that is not the case for his followers, who will be systematically duped by false literal miracle stories.


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