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 Post subject: Re: Did St. Paul exist?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 4:28 pm 
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Jesus

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Sorry MarkUK but the reason why Paul is the 2nd greatest apostle of all time is because he truly did have an incredible conversion when he met Jesus in a vision. And because he was a brilliant man of great intelligence; and because he also knew the Old Testament scriptures like few men of his day did; God showed him mercy and called and chose him. For Paul and Luke the physician is responsible for writing 2/3rds of the New Testament Bible. And even now; you cannot understand or discipher Pauls writings unless you are truly born again and mature in Christ!! For even though I have been reading and studying the apostle Paul's writing for 35 years now; he is still my #1 apostle and Christian leader. Along with my man Moses!!


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 Post subject: Re: Did St. Paul exist?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 4:56 pm 
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moses737 "you cannot understand or discipher Pauls writings unless you are truly born again and mature in Christ!!"

You do realize that argument tactic is a completely load of crap, right? It is a fallacious argument. There is no such thing as a "special" Christian who has any sort of superior understanding regardless of being saved, baptized, speaking in tongues or anything else. Look up the no true Scotsman fallacy. It's a self-sealing delusion argument.

I am a former saved, baptized, evangelical of around 20 years.

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 Post subject: Re: Did St. Paul exist?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:51 pm 
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Oh my MarcUK!! I missed your post as I was having a heated debate with somebody else. But those of us who are Spirit-Filled by the Holy Ghost and fire like the Bible says in Matthew 3:11. And I have been an apostle of the Great Faith of Jesus for 35 years now!! And I have seen God heal hundreds of people as I prayed for them in Jesus Name. But you have to have a great level of faith to do these works and miracles. And you are obviously a backslidden evangelical that Satan owns now!! Why does he own you; because you departed from the faith and now you are twice dead and plucked up from the roots and doomed. Come back to Jesus and repent and cry out for His mercy before it is too late. For your doom will be much worse if you die as a backslider!!


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 Post subject: Re: Did St. Paul exist?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 9:02 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 7:12 pm
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Moses737,

I see you believe yourself to be a follower of the traditional Jesus. The figure of Jesus usually stayed on topic, here you should follow that lead because few like being preached to and you may actually turn people away from your Jesus, you should follow the lead of many others and slowly boil them into the strange world of the gospels .

I would like to test your commitment to Jesus. He says anyone who asks for your jacket give him your cloak also. Would you give me both? Don't worry I'll send postage!

You say that your God healed many people on your word alone, but how great is the power of your god if Atheists and others also get healed without asking?


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 Post subject: Re: Did St. Paul exist?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 2:15 am 
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Moses bhai,

Since I am from the oldest false religion, which has been existing since a few thousand years before both Satan and JC's grandpa were born, the question of me going away and coming back to Jesus looks a little meaningless. But still one question always has me stumped. How is it that Satan appears to be more resourceful and why do Jesus and god keep looking the other way while he goes about merrily on his mischief? Why create sickness and trouble a man just to prove their miracles? Can't they sort out this Satan fella once and for all without waiting for a certificate of merit from all of us?

Back to my karma :wink:

moses737 wrote:
Oh my MarcUK!! I missed your post as I was having a heated debate with somebody else. But those of us who are Spirit-Filled by the Holy Ghost and fire like the Bible says in Matthew 3:11. And I have been an apostle of the Great Faith of Jesus for 35 years now!! And I have seen God heal hundreds of people as I prayed for them in Jesus Name. But you have to have a great level of faith to do these works and miracles. And you are obviously a backslidden evangelical that Satan owns now!! Why does he own you; because you departed from the faith and now you are twice dead and plucked up from the roots and doomed. Come back to Jesus and repent and cry out for His mercy before it is too late. For your doom will be much worse if you die as a backslider!!

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Janani Janmabhoomishcha Swargadapi Gareeyasi - Being near to your mother in your motherland is better than being in paradise

Ekavarnam yatha dugdham binnavarnasu dhenushu | tataiva dharmavaichitryam tatvam ekam param smritam ||
Just as milk is of only one colour though obtained from cows of different colours so also the peculiarities of different religious thoughts lead to the same one ultimate truth - Mahabharatha


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 2:21 am 
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Mriana,

You wanna see a modern day Jesus? Take a look at this Australian cricketer called Jason Gillespie.

http://www.jasongillespie.net/
:mrgreen:



Mriana wrote:
lux wrote:
My question is simple: Why are all the main characters in the Christ story depicted as having blue eyes and white skin when they are supposedly of middle eastern descent?


I had that question about the JC pics when I was 7. I has been my conclusion, it has something to do with the Europeans, or rather the Roman Church.

However, my younger son stumbled onto something and he named some famous painter, I forget which one, but the pic of Jesus most often displayed, is actually of that painter's father. People decided the picture for some reason, according to my older son's research/discovery, should be labeled Jesus. I have a feeling, a lot of those pictures are basically the same thing, except maybe not of actual people. I'm not sure if anyone is following me on this, but that is my theory.

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Janani Janmabhoomishcha Swargadapi Gareeyasi - Being near to your mother in your motherland is better than being in paradise

Ekavarnam yatha dugdham binnavarnasu dhenushu | tataiva dharmavaichitryam tatvam ekam param smritam ||
Just as milk is of only one colour though obtained from cows of different colours so also the peculiarities of different religious thoughts lead to the same one ultimate truth - Mahabharatha


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 Post subject: Re: Did St. Paul exist?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 7:41 pm 
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Interesting, but I see a lot of men who look similar.

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Mriana

Nonviolence is the greatest force at the disposal of mankind. It is mightier than the mightiest weapon of destruction devised by the ingenuity of man. ~ Gandhi

Non-violence leads to the highest ethics, which is the goal of all evolution. Until we stop harming all other living beings, we are still savages. ~ Thomas A. Edison


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 Post subject: Re: Did St. Paul exist?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 3:05 pm 
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What about Apollonius as the mythical assignment for the life of Philo Judaeus of Alexandria?

1. One of the Epistles attributed to Paul refered to a certain Apollius - if I am not mistaken.
2. Also in Acts is mention of the same Apollius.

He went nearly all the way of the teachings of Paul, except some last bit.
Philo wrote about the Essenes and Therapeutists, during various decades.

So he was familiar with most teachings, yet not all or the most secret teachings.

Philo was also chief priest of the jewish diaspora community of Alexandria.

In that function he plead in Rome before the emperor against Appion, who had accused the jews of Alexandria.
In other words, Philo probaly was even more well-travelled than Paul.

Galatians 4.21> indicates Paul went a major step further than the allegorical interpretations of Philo Judaeus. He took the Law, or Moses, inferior for their appreciation, in comparison to the allegorical hermeneutical appreciation of the Covenant and births of Isaac and Ishmael. Similarly Paul WOULD have judged the birth of Moses as myth, whereas Philo takes all Pentateuch characters as myth, except Moses - much like Josephus seems to do, in his work against Apion or the Greek.

So the works about Apollonius could be meant for all those Essenes, that did not want to go as far as Paul (Nazoreans), like Josephus and Philo himself had he been alive still.

Paul would also take the birth stories in the gospels of John the Baptist and Jesus of BethLechem as myths, to symbolically personificate a certain thought model about the ideal mental attitude like for Isaac and Ishmael in Galatians 4.21>.

Dutch ex-communicated priest, theologian Pierre Krijbolder in Jezus de Nazoreeer / Crucifixion and Turin Shroud Mysteries Solved, has given full application of that hypothesis for the historical explanation of the historical Jesus, to great success.

Should Krijbolder have been not Dutch but German or English, none would ever bought any of Da Vinci Code. He would have been the most famous theologian of all times.
Pity for the world, outside The Netherlands none so far is familiar with the work of Krijbolder.
Dr. Karel Hanhart wrote a counter attempt (Open Tomb)to ridicule the work of Krijbolder, by calling Josephus a liar in many ways, as if Josephus would have had something to gain from by the book of Krijbolder, 19 centuries later.


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 Post subject: Re: Did St. Paul exist?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:02 pm 
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Jesus

Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2007 2:37 am
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Location: los angeles
well one day he is murdering these new heretics next day he is thrown from his ass and by jingo he is changerd.today that wouldnt rate very well in his favor.he also is resposible for the more stringent dogmas and tests to see if you are truly christian as in you gotta believe this and that.Many christians follow paul as the top dog as he wrote all the rules belif requirements and etc etc.i have no use for his writings .dont really understand them as it is off beat.as he doesnt have a clue how to do or say or be like jumpin jaysus.who i do follow.now as to to the veracity of the bible itself i have to think it is not very veracid sic.jews werent slavers in egypt but invaders as joseph cheated the natives and gave it to his fellows then the jews (hibirus,hyksos,off springers of the original sumerian swindle that has plagued us in all time) were kicked out of soem were permitted to keep their loot others were hunted down as well as possible.they just went back to babylon or ur and continued on as usual.the jews when not lying are good at switching around everything usually being the opposite is true of what or who they say is this or that.their religion is based on the devil who is their god as sadly it rules this world which has been distorted from original creation.usury,swindling,debauching peoples,duplicity,deceit,and nasty uncaring meaness are the attributes of this ribe of parasites and they have no claim to bible aiuthorshio as most of it is not soemthing i would trust as a way to think as in modern christians thinking is is the written word of gawd herself.(god dog)aint a coincidence it is a joke inside)now words of jesus are good at anytime.and yes his light body came back to show he did it and was a truly attainment of being one with his poppa creator.television preachers are a zample of soem of the most bizarre and dastardly doers funded by international jewry you may like to know as is the rapture heresy.one more zample of naughty jews doing deceitful misleading . one thing I must say is not all jews are naughty just most of them as talmud proves what a crock it is.franco was a jew a damn guten juden as well. there are others as well, but in my experience and what has affected me thier impact is negative to be kind.if they too tupid to know about their own holy book talmud then what is their poit of being so ?wether ashteist or orthodox they all sit and eat and laugh when they see the shabaz goy coem unlock their steenkenk synagog because they so dumb they believe their own lies,and the father of lies is their god and they could have doen so much good for humanity here but instead chose the lower shit heel path.regards lalala tra lal tar [img][img][/img][/img]la


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File comment: forensic recreation of jesus,a nother jewish joke ,i assume.reason i believe jesus walked and talked is because they bother to write of him in talmud where he is boiling in feces pontius pilate was visited by jesus according to a account by him of his meeting with him before the troubles .
tb_jesuslead-lg zample of forensic sculpture ,, jumpin jaysus.jpg
tb_jesuslead-lg zample of forensic sculpture ,, jumpin jaysus.jpg [ 33.52 KiB | Viewed 3141 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Did St. Paul exist?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 4:29 pm 
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I do thing Paul was a real person (Paul of the Epistles and not Acts). I believe Paul was a Jew from the same lines of Philo of Alexandria (after he was a zealot) I think that Christianity was a way Paul could bridge the cultural/religious gap between Jews and Gentiles. The Gentiles could see some good in Jewish ideas, and vice versa. Knowing from his experience as a Zealot in Judea Paul would've believed that a revolt was forthcoming and wanted to give Jews a new way of thinking away from being religious terrorists.


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 Post subject: Re: Did St. Paul exist?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 6:27 pm 
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Here's another thread on this issue as well:

http://freethoughtnation.com/forums/vie ... =15&t=2958

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The Jesus Mythicist Creed:
The "Jesus Christ" of the New Testament is a fictional composite of characters, real and mythical. A composite of multiple "people" is no one.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:15 am 
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Jesus

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Location: los angeles
irreleavant since he did such a good job of inventing a religion.I dont think one can go around murdering people then have a flash and become the head of the people he was murdering.I think paul dexcided to use the I can dio more damage in it than outside killing "it"and he did, most christian churches take all their dogma and fanciful ideas from paul.he accomplished his purpose hijacking a movement? and putting all kinds of off the wall beliefs and etc etc, having never met the man himself since you say they both didnt exist,which i think they did.have you seen the latest analysis of the shroud? well the two brits who did one back a go were not quite on the up n up and either was the british society that runs it, anyways another electron microscope or soem such gadget shows that the man in the shroud had coins placed oveer his eyes(definitly not jewish custom)and both coins date to the time of jesus and the crucifixion, its at a catholic site one,did you know in catholiscism there is a total denial and rebellion against the pope and has been sice the 63 ecumenical council,also demonstrates how john paul was murdered by the kookoo cardianals in the church,o'd insulin.well dats me 2 centsv werth.Has anyone read the article pontiuos pilate wrote about jesus before he was on trial?wonder if dats true pilate was brought back to rome nd killed as he let jesus be executed and the roman emporer needed jesus to cure his son.only goes to show you.lol


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 Post subject: Re: Did St. Paul exist?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:15 pm 
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One thing that has bothered me is the fact the Josephus doesn't mention St. Paul at all in Jewish Antiquities. According to Acts (whose historicity I doubt) Paul caused a stir at the Temple Mount which led to his arrest, certainly if that was true Josephus would have mentioned it. Also no mention of Paul by Josephus outside of Judea.

What do you guys think?


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 Post subject: Re: Did St. Paul exist?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 8:36 pm 
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Yeah, it seems that the same Evemerist vs Mythicist dilemma that exists for Jesus also exists for Paul. Because the profiles of these guys as portrayed in the New Testament is pretty much entirely fiction.

Not only Josephus, but NO source other than Acts records that stuff(or others who are using Acts as their source).

The only thing "Paul" has over "Jesus" are texts attributed to him. Jesus is never said to have written anything. Other than that, Paul's historicity is in even worse shape than Jesus's.


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 Post subject: Re: Did St. Paul exist?
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 4:46 pm 
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Acts is our main biographical source for the supposed life of Paul. But there's a small problem, Acts is unbelievable, legendary fiction. That, combined with the fact that the letters attributed to "Paul" are by different writers pretending to be Paul, should not give us any confidence that any reliable historical information was preserved about this deluded old man. And, as in most religious studies, it's a very short step from "no reliable information" to "purely legendary figure." Paul's life and ideas are, like Jesus's, based almost entirely on the Septuagint, in Paul's case a semi-Gnostic inverse exegesis of Jewish scripture -- one which removes Jews from the picture entirely. That alone makes Paul an unbelievable figure historically.


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