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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 9:56 pm 
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Ken Humphreys at JesusNeverExisted has a great list of mythicists:

Quote:
Demolishing the Jesus Myth – A History

For more than 200 years a minority of courageous scholars have dared to question the story of Jesus. Despite the risks of physical assault, professional ruin and social opprobrium, they have seriously doubted the veracity of the gospel saga, have peeled away the layers of fraud and deceit and eventually have challenged the very existence of the godman.


Hermann Samuel Reimarus (1694-1768).1778, On the Intention of Jesus and His Teaching. Enlightenment thinker and professor of Oriental languages at the Hamburg Gymnasium, his extensive writings – published after his death – rejected 'revealed religion' and argued for a naturalistic deism. Reimarus charged the gospel writers with conscious fraud and innumerable contradictions.

Francois Marie Arouet (Voltaire) (1694-1778) The most influential figure of the Enlightenment was educated at a Jesuit college yet concluded, "Christianity is the most ridiculous, the most absurd, and bloody religion that has ever infected the world ... The true God cannot have been born of a girl, nor died on a gibbet, nor be eaten in a piece of dough." Imprisoned, exiled, his works banned and burned, Voltaire's great popularity in revolutionary France assured him a final resting place in the Pantheon in Paris. Religious extremists stole his remains and dumped them in a garbage heap.

Count Constantine Volney, 1787, Les Ruines; ou, Méditation sur les révolutions des empires (Ruins of Empires). Napoleonic investigator saw for himself evidence of Egyptian precursors of Christianity.

Edward Evanson, 1792, The Dissonance of the Four Generally Received Evangelists and the Evidence of their Respective Authenticity. English rationalist challenged apostolic authorship of the 4th Gospel and denounced several Pauline epistles as spurious.

Charles François Dupuis, 1794, Origine de tous les Cultes ou La Religion universelle. Astral-mythical interpretation of Christianity (and all religion). “A great error is more easily propagated, than a great truth, because it is easier to believe, than to reason, and because people prefer the marvels of romances to the simplicity of history.” Dupuis destroyed most of his own work because of the violent reaction it provoked.

Thomas Paine, 1795, The Age of Reason. Pamphleteer who made the first call for American independence (Common Sense, 1776; Rights of Man, 1791) Paine poured savage ridicule on the contradictions and atrocities of the Bible. Like many American revolutionaries Paine was a deist:

"I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of ... Each of those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and for my own part, I disbelieve them all." – The Age of Reason.

Robert Taylor, 1828, Syntagma Of The Evidences Of The Christian Religion; 1829, Diegesis. Taylor was imprisoned for declaring mythical origins for Christianity. "The earliest Christians meant the words to be nothing more than a personification of the principle of reason, of goodness, or that principle, be it what it may, which may most benefit mankind in the passage through life.”

Godfrey Higgins (1771-1834). 1836, Anacalypsis – An Attempt to Draw Aside the Veil of the Saitic Isis; or an Inquiry into the Origin of Languages, Nations and Religions. English pioneer of archaeology and freemason.

Bruno Bauer, 1841, Criticism of the Gospel History of the Synoptics. 1877, Christus und die Caesaren. Der Hervorgang des Christentums aus dem romischen Griechentum. The original iconoclast. Bauer contested the authenticity of all the Pauline epistles (in which he saw the influence of Stoic thinkers like Seneca) and identified Philo's role in emergent Christianity. Bauer rejected the historicity of Jesus himself. "Everything that is known of Jesus belongs to the world of imagination." As a result in 1842 Bauer was ridiculed and removed from his professorship of New Testament theology at Tübingen.

Ralph Waldo Emerson, 1841, Essays. One time Trinitarian Christian and former Unitarian minister held Jesus to be a "true prophet" but that organised Christianity was an "eastern monarchy".

"Our Sunday-schools, and churches, and pauper-societies are yokes to the neck."

Mitchell Logan, 1842, Christian Mythology Unveiled. “Reigning opinion, however ill-founded and absurd, is always queen of the nations.”

Ferdinand Christian Baur, 1845, Paulus, der Apostel Jesu Christi. German scholar who identified as "inauthentic" not only the pastoral epistles, but also Colossians, Ephesians, Philemon and Philippians (leaving only the four main Pauline epistles regarded as genuine). Baur was the founder of the so-called "Tübingen "

David Friedrich Strauss, 1860, The Life of Jesus Critically Examined. Lutheran vicar-turned-scholar skilfully exposed gospel miracles as myth and in the process reduced Jesus to a man. It cost him his career.

Charles Bradlaugh, 1860, Who Was Jesus Christ? What Did Jesus Teach? Most famous English atheist of the 19th century, founded the National Secular Society and became an MP, winning the right to affirm. Condemned the teachings of Jesus as dehumanizing passivity and disastrous as practical advice. Bradlaugh denounced the gospel Jesus as a myth.

Ernest Renan, 1863, Das Leben Jesu. Trained as a Catholic priest, Renan wrote a romanticised biography of the godman which was influenced by the German critics. It cost him his job.

Robert Ingersoll, 1872, The Gods. Illinois orator extraordinaire, his speeches savaged the Christian religion. "It has always seemed to me that a being coming from another world, with a message of infinite importance to mankind, should at least have verified that message by his own signature. Is it not wonderful that not one word was written by Christ?"

Kersey Graves, 1875, The World's Sixteen Crucified Saviours. Pennsylvanian Quaker who saw through to the pagan heart of Christian fabrications, though rarely cited sources for his far-reaching conclusions.

Allard Pierson, 1879, De Bergrede en andere synoptische Fragmenten. Theologian, art and literature historian who identified The Sermon on the Mount as a collection of aphorisms from Jewish Wisdom literature.The publication of Pierson's Bergrede was the beginning of Dutch Radical Criticism. Not just the authenticity of all the Pauline epistles but the historical existence of Jesus himself was called into question.

Bronson C. Keeler, 1881, A Short History of the Bible. A classic exposé of Christian fraud.

Abraham Dirk Loman, 1882, "Quaestiones Paulinae," in Theologisch Tijdschrift. Professor of theology at Amsterdam who said all the epistles date from the 2nd century. Loman explained Christianity as a fusion of Jewish and Roman-Hellenic thinking. When he went blind Loman said his blindness gave him insight into the dark history of the church!

Thomas William Doane, 1882, Bible Myths and their Parallels in Other Religions. Outdated but a classic revelation of pagan antecedents of biblical myths and miracles.

Samuel Adrianus Naber, 1886, Verisimilia. Laceram conditionem Novi Testamenti exemplis illustrarunt et ab origine repetierunt. Classicist who saw Greek myths hidden within Christian scripture.

Gerald Massey, 1886, Historical Jesus and Mythical Christ. 1907, Ancient Egypt-The Light of the World. Another classic from an early nemesis of the priesthood. British Egyptologist wrote six volumes on the religion of ancient Egypt

Edwin Johnson, 1887, Antiqua mater. A Study of Christian Origins. English radical theologian identified the early Christians as the Chrestiani, followers of a good (Chrestus) God who had expropriating the myth of Dionysos Eleutherios ("Dionysos the Emancipator"), to produce a self-sacrificing Godman. Denounced the twelve apostles as complete fabrication.

Rudolf Steck, 1888, Der Galaterbrief nach seiner Echtheit untersucht nebst kritischen Bemerkungen zu den Paulinischen Hauptbriefen. Radical Swiss scholar branded all the Pauline epistles as fakes.

Franz Hartman, 1889, The Life of Johoshua: The Prophet of Nazareth.

Willem Christiaan van Manen, 1896, Paulus. Professor at Leiden and most famous of the Dutch Radicals, a churchman who did not believe in the bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ. After resisting the argument for many years van Manen concluded none of the Pauline epistles were genuine and that Acts was dependent on the works of Josephus.

Joseph McCabe, 1897, Why I Left the Church. 1907, The Bible in Europe: an Inquiry into the Contribution of the Christian Religion to Civilization. 1914, The Sources of the Morality of the Gospels. Franciscan monk-turned-evangelical atheist. McCabe, a prolific writer, shredded many parts of the Christ legend – "There is no "figure of Jesus" in the Gospels. There are a dozen figures" – but he continued to allow the possibility for an historical founder, nonetheless.

Albert Schweitzer.1901, The Mystery of the Kingdom of God. 1906, The Quest of the Historical Jesus. The famous German theologian and missionary (35 years in the Cameroons) ridiculed the humanitarian Jesus of the liberals and at the same time had the courage to recognize the work of the Dutch Radicals. His own pessimistic conclusion was that the superhero had been an apocalyptic fanatic and that Jesus died a disappointed man. Famously said those looking for an historical Jesus merely found a reflection of themselves.

Wilhelm Wrede, 1901, The Messianic Secret. Wrede demonstrated how, in Mark’s gospel, a false history was shaped by early Christian belief.

George Robert Stowe Mead, 1903, Did Jesus Live 100 BC? A discussion of the Jewish Jeschu stories which moves Jesus back to an earlier time.

Thomas Whittaker, 1904, The Origins of Christianity. Declared Jesus a myth.

William Benjamin Smith, 1906, Der vorchristliche Jesus. 1911, Die urchristliche Lehre des reingöttlichen Jesus. Argues for origins in a pre-Christian Jesus cult on the island of Cyprus.

Albert Kalthoff, 1907, The Rise of Christianity. Another radical German scholar who identified Christianity as a psychosis. Christ was essentially the transcendental principle of the Christian community which aimed at apocalyptic social reform.

Gerardus Bolland, 1907, De Evangelische Jozua. Philosopher at Leiden identified the origin of Christianity in an earlier Jewish Gnosticism. The New Testament superstar is the Old Testament 'son of Nun', the follower renamed Jesus by Moses. The virgin is nothing but a symbol for the people of Israel. From Alexandria the "Netzerim" took their gospel to Palestine.


In 1907 Pope Pius X condemned the Modernists who were "working within the framework of the Church". An anti-Modernist oath was introduced in 1910.


Prosper Alfaric (1886-1955) French Professor of Theology, shaken by the stance of Pius X, renounced his faith and left the church in 1909 to work for the cause of rationalism.

Mangasar Magurditch Mangasarian, 1909, The Truth About Jesus. Is He a Myth? Erstwhile Presbyterian Minister who saw through the fabrication.

Karl Kautsky, 1909, The Foundations of Christianity. Early socialist interpreted Christianity in terms of class struggle.

John E. Remsburg, 1909, The Christ: A critical review and analysis of the evidences of His existence. Gospels rife with contradictions. Doubtful that Jesus existed and a supernatural Christ is certainly Christian dogma.

Arthur Drews, 1910, Die Christusmythe (The Christ Myth). 1910, Die Petruslegende (The Legend of St Peter). 1924, Die Entstehung des Christentums aus dem Gnostizismus (The Emergence of Christianity from Gnosticism). Eminent philosopher was Germany's greatest exponent of the contention that Christ is a myth. The gospels historized a pre-existing mystical Jesus whose character was drawn from the prophets and Jewish wisdom literature. The Passion was to be found in the speculations of Plato.

John Robertson, 1910, Christianity and Mythology. 1911, Pagan Christs. Studies in Comparative Hierology. 1917, The Jesus Problem. Robertson drew attention to the universality of many elements of the Jesus' storyline and to pre-Christian crucifixion rituals in the ancient world. Identified the original Jesus/Joshua with an ancient Ephraimite deity in the form of a lamb.

Gustaaf Adolf van den Bergh van Eysinga, 1912, Radical Views about the New Testament. 1918, Voorchristelijk Christendom. De vorbereiding van het Evangelie in de Hellenistische wereld. Theologian and last of the Dutch radicals to hold a university professorship.

Alexander Hislop, 1916, The Two Babylons. Exhaustive exposure of the pagan rituals and paraphernalia of Roman Catholicism.

Edward Carpenter, 1920, Pagan and Christian Creeds. Elaborated the pagan origins of Christianity.

Rudolf Bultmann, 1921, The History of the Synoptic Tradition. 1941, Neues Testament und Mythologie. Lutheran theologian and professor at Marburg University Bultman was the exponent of 'form criticism' and did much to demythologise the gospels. He identified the narratives of Jesus as theology served up in the language of myth. Bultmann observed that the New Testament was not the story of Jesus but a record of early Christian belief. He argued that the search for an historical Jesus was fruitless: "We can know almost nothing concerning the life and personality of Jesus." (Jesus and the Word, 8)

James Frazer, 1922, The Golden Bough. Anthropological interpretation of man's progress from magic, through religion to science. Christianity a cultural phenomenon.

P. L. Couchoud, 1924, Le mystère de Jesus.1939, The Creation of Christ. Couchoud espoused an historical Peter rather than an historical Jesus and argued that the Passion was modelled on the death of Stephen.

Georg Brandes, 1926, Jesus – A Myth. Identified the Revelation of St John as the earliest part of the New Testament.

Joseph Wheless, 1926, Is It God's Word? An Exposition of the Fables and Mythology of the Bible and the Fallacies of Theology. 1930, Forgery in Christianity. American attorney, raised in the Bible Belt, shredded the biblical fantasy.

Henri Delafosse, 1927, Les Lettres d’Ignace d’Antioche. 1928, "Les e'crits de Saint Paul," in Christianisme. Epistles of Ignatius denounced as late forgeries.

L. Gordon Rylands, 1927, The Evolution of Christianity.1935, Did Jesus Ever Live?

John G. Jackson, 1933, Was Jesus Christ a Negro? 1937, Introduction To African Civilizations. 1941, Pagan Origins of the Christ Myth. 1970 Man, God, and Civilization. 1985, Christianity Before Christ. Most influential Black Atheist drew attention to the Ethiopian and Egyptian precedents of Christian belief.

Edouard Dujardin, 1938, Ancient History of the God Jesus.

Alvin Boyd Kuhn, 1944, Who is this King of Glory? 1970, Rebirth for Christianity. Jesus was never a person, but a symbol of the divine soul in every human being.

Herbert Cutner, 1950, Jesus: God, Man, or Myth? Mythical nature of Jesus and a summary of the ongoing debate between mythicists and historicizers. Mythic-only position is continuous tradition, not novel. Pagan origins of Christ.

Georges Las Vergnas, 1956, Pourquoi j'ai quitté l'Eglise romaine Besançon. 1958, Jésus-Christ a-t-il existé? Vicar general of the diocese of Limoges who lost his faith. Argues that the central figure of Christianity had no historical existence.

Georges Ory, 1961, An Analysis of Christian Origins.

Guy Fau, 1967, Le Fable de Jesus Christ.

John Allegro, 1970, The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross. 1979, The Dead Sea Scrolls and the Christian Myth. Jesus was nothing other than a magic mushroom and his life an allegorical interpretation of a drug-induced state. Not jail for Allegro – but professional ruin.

George Albert Wells, 1975, Did Jesus Exist? 1988, The Historical Evidence for Jesus. 1996, The Jesus Legend. 1998, Jesus Myth. 2004, Can We Trust the New Testament? Thoughts on the Reliability of Early Christian Testimony. Christianity a growth from Jewish Wisdom literature. Later books concede possible influence of a real preacher.

Jean Magne, 1975, Christian Origins, I-II. 1989, III, IV. 1993, From Christianity to Gnosis and From Gnosis to Christianity: An Itinerary through the Texts to and from the Tree of Paradise.

Max Rieser, 1979, The True Founder of Christianity and the Hellenistic Philosophy. Christianity started by Jews of the Diaspora and then retroactively set in pre-70 Palestine. Christianity arrived last, not first, in Palestine – that's why Christian archeological finds appear in Rome but not in Judea until the 4th century.

Abelard Reuchlin, 1979, The True Authorship of the New Testament. Conspiracy theory par excellence: Roman aristocrat Arius Calpurnius Piso (aka "Flavius Josephus") conspired to gain control of the Roman Empire by forging an entirely new religion.

Karlheinz Deschner, 1986-2004, The Criminal History of Christianity, Volumes 1-8. A leading German critic of religion and the Church. In 1971 Deschner was called before a court in Nuremberg, charged with "insulting the Church."

Hermann Detering, 1992, Paulusbriefe ohne Paulus?: Die Paulusbriefe in der holländischen Radikalkritik. German minister in the Dutch radical tradition. No Jesus and no Paul.

Gary Courtney, 1992, 2004 Et tu, Judas? Then Fall Jesus! The Passion is essentially Caesar's fate in Judaic disguise, grafted onto the dying/resurrcting cult of Attis. Jewish fans of Caesar assimilated the sacrificed 'saviour of mankind' into the 'Suffering Servant' of Isaiah.

Michael Kalopoulos, 1995, The Great Lie. Greek historian finds strikingly similar parallels between biblical texts and Greek mythology. He exposes the cunning, deceitful and authoritarian nature of religion.

Gerd Lüdemann, 1998, The Great Deception: And What Jesus Really Said and Did. 2002, Paul: The Founder of Christianity. 2004, The Resurrection Of Christ: A Historical Inquiry. After 25 years of study German professor concluded Paul, not Jesus, started Christianity. Lüdemann was expelled from the theology faculty at the University of Göttingen for daring to say that the Resurrection was "a pious self-deception." So much for academic freedom.

Alvar Ellegard, 1999, Jesus One Hundred Years Before Christ. Christianity seen as emerging from the Essene Church of God with the Jesus prototype the Teacher of Righteousness.

D. Murdock (aka 'Acharya S') 1999, The Christ Conspiracy: The Greatest Story Ever Sold. 2004, Suns of God: Krishna, Buddha and Christ Unveiled. Adds a astro-theological dimension to christ-myth demolition. Murdock identifies JC as a composite deity used to unify the Roman Empire.

Earl Doherty, 1999, The Jesus Puzzle. Did Christianity Begin with a Mythical Christ? 2009, Jesus: Neither God Nor Man. Powerful statement of how Christianity started as a mystical-revelatory Jewish sect – no Jesus required!.

Timothy Freke, Peter Gandy, 1999, The Jesus Mysteries. 2001, Jesus and the Lost Goddess : The Secret Teachings of the Original Christians. Examines the close relationship between the Jesus Story and that of Osiris-Dionysus. Jesus and Mary Magdalene mythic figures based on the Pagan Godman and Goddess.

Harold Liedner, 2000, The Fabrication of the Christ Myth. Anachronisms and geographic errors of the gospels denounced. Christianity one of history's most effective frauds.

Robert Price, 2000, Deconstructing Jesus. 2003 Incredible Shrinking Son of Man: How Reliable Is the Gospel Tradition? Ex-minister and accredited scholar shows Jesus to be a fictional amalgam of several 1st century prophets, mystery cult redeemers and gnostic 'aions'.

Hal Childs, 2000, The Myth of the Historical Jesus and the Evolution of Consciousness. A psychotherapist take on the godman.

Michael Hoffman, 2000, Philosopher and theorist of "ego death" who jettisoned an historical Jesus.

Burton Mack, 2001,The Christian Myth: Origins, Logic, and Legacy. Social formation of myth making.

Luigi Cascioli, 2001, The Fable of Christ. Indicting the Papacy for profiteering from a fraud!

Israel Finkelstein, Neil Silbermann, 2002, The Bible Unearthed: Archaeology's New Vision of Ancient Israel and the Origin of Its Sacred Texts. Courageous archaeologists who skillfully proved the sacred foundational stories of Judaism and Christianity are bogus.

Frank R. Zindler, 2003, The Jesus the Jews Never Knew: Sepher Toldoth Yeshu and the Quest of the Historical Jesus in Jewish Sources. No evidence in Jewish sources for the phantom messiah.

Daniel Unterbrink, 2004, Judas the Galilean. The Flesh and Blood Jesus. Parallels between the tax rebel of 6 AD and the phantom of the Gospels explored in detail. 'Judas is Jesus'. Well, part of Jesus, no doubt.

Tom Harpur, 2005, The Pagan Christ: Recovering the Lost Light. Canadian New Testament scholar and ex-Anglican priest re-states the ideas of Kuhn, Higgins and Massey. Jesus is a myth and all of the essential ideas of Christianity originated in Egypt.

Francesco Carotta, 2005, Jesus Was Caesar: On the Julian Origin of Christianity. Exhaustive inventory of parallels. Alarmingly, asserts Caesar was Jesus.

Joseph Atwill, 2005, Caesar's Messiah: The Roman Conspiracy to Invent Jesus. Another take on the Josephus-Gospel similarities. Atwill argues that the 1st century conquerors of Judaea, Vespasian, Titus and Domitian, used Hellenized Jews to manufacture the "Christian" texts in order to establish a peaceful alternative to militant Judaism. Jesus was Titus Flavius? I don't think so.

Michel Onfray, 2005, Traité d'athéologie (2007 In Defence of Atheism) French philosopher argues for a positive atheism, debunking an historical Jesus along the way.

Kenneth Humphreys, 2005, Jesus Never Existed. Book of this website. Draws together the most convincing expositions for the supposed messianic superhero. The author sets this exegesis within the socio-historical context of an evolving, malevolent religion.

Jay Raskin, 2006, The Evolution of Christs and Christianities. Academic and erstwhile filmaker Raskin looks beyond the official smokescreen of Eusebius and finds a fragmented Christ movement and a composite Christ figure, crafted from several literary and historical characters. Speculates that the earliest layer of myth-making was a play written by a woman called Mary. Maybe.

Thomas L. Thompson, 2006, The Messiah Myth. Theologian, university don and historian of the Copenhagen school who concludes Jesus and David are both amalgams of Near Eastern mythological themes originating in the Bronze Age.

Jan Irvin, Andrew Rutajit, 2006, Astrotheology and Shamanism: Unveiling the Law of Duality in Christianity and other Religions. Explores astrotheology and shamanism and vindicates John Allegro's work with psychoactive substances.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:46 pm 
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Here's some news that we should probably include here in this thread to emphasize our point regarding blatant biases and bigotry throughout academia in favor of Jesus and the bible. A fairly well known Christian scholar has been fired simply for pointing out that Matthew 27:51-53 could not possibly have been literal:

Matthew 27:51-53 (RSV): "And behold, the curtain of the temple was torn in two, from top to bottom; and the earth shook, and the rocks were split; 52 the tombs also were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised, 53 and coming out of the tombs after his resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many."

Mike Licona forced out of job for a single paragraph!

If it wasn't enough for Licona to be fired from his job, he has also been removed as apologetics coordinator for the North American Mission Board (NAMB). Basically, this means that Christian scholars are cannibalizing their own merely for pointing out the obvious. I find it strange and very disturbing. It reminds me of those wonderful days of the DARK AGES, which makes me wonder if politics aren't also involved in some way. I'd love to see a serious journalistic investigation into this matter because we already know that some religious right-wing Republicans would love to implement a Christian theocracy in the US. No surprise there but, that would eventually lead us straight into a new, modern day Inquisition with new types of witch hunts (academic?) eventually landing us in a new, modern day DARK AGE. Frankly, I'd like to find out if there's anything to that or not. I'm curious if this is just the beginning of something quite sinister in an attempt to shut down all criticism of religion. Is this the beginning of the Christian version of the U.N. Blasphemy Resolution?

The Mythicist Challenge Petition [Draft]

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:32 pm 
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^And then people wonder why the "majority of scholars" refuse to profess that Jesus himself was not literal either.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 12:39 pm 
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Excellent points, FTL and GA, bringing up what I'm calling -

The "No Serious Mythicist Scholar" Fallacy

The "No Serious Mythicist Scholar" fallacy contends that "no serious scholar thinks Jesus Christ is a myth" or "no serious scholar doubts that Jesus Christ ever existed." This fallacy is tossed about all over the place by both believers and evemerists alike. (Evemerists being those who believe, without real evidence, that underneath the fabulous fairytales in the New Testament there's some "real guy" there.)

To begin with, this debacle is like the Islamic Republic president saying there are no gays in Iran - well, gee, that's because you HANG them!

There are no "serious mythicist scholars" because they can't get jobs! And those who engage in mythicist studies, to whatever extent, will be fired. Doh! That's been going on since the days of Dr. David Strauss, at least, and with Rev. Dr. Robert Taylor, a highly erudite and popular English clergyman who was IMPRISONED TWICE for some years in a harsh English prison in the late 1820s to 1830s, charged with "blasphemy" for giving mythicist sermons from his pulpit. And before then? Off with your head, so to speak.

How many people who could see the patent mythology of the gospel tale were not just fired or excluded but KILLED over the centuries?

There's quite obviously been an intellectual purge over the centuries in favor of non-mythicist scholars. And that blatant bias represents a major reason the halls of academia are filled with believers and non-mythicists. It's just more of the same ol' boys club that has gotten us into a huge mess on planet Earth.

So, there's little-to-no merit to the "might makes right" argument here in trying to pound us with the fact that the majority of professional scholars are evemerists or believers. That's quite a deliberate contrivance obviously, since it seems to be the duty of academia to exclude such scholars and their scholarship. Indeed, I've had more than a few scholars and clergymen come to me over the years, telling me they were big fans and had studied this subject both within my works and also in university or seminary, but that they couldn't open their mouths for fear of censure or worse. One scholar at a major North American university even expressed fear for his life! Some of these individuals are on my Facebook page, but they don't want their employers to know, so they never say anything - from my experience of having these individuals pop up on a regular basis, it seems we are seeing just the very tiny tip of a huge iceberg, frankly.

Rubbing this biased development/purge in our faces represents more of the same intimidation and bullying that has kept academic fairly "mythicist-free" all these centuries. The "no serious mythicist scholar" falsehood constitutes not a declaration of facts but a childish "nyah, nyah, nyah" from puerile individuals with their fingers stuck in their ears.

This foolish "no serious scholar" pronouncement also represents cultural myopia and conceit, since there have been and ARE many serious scholars in EUROPE and elsewhere who HAVE engaged in logical, rational mythicist studies over the centuries. Despite such disingenuous declarations and feeble efforts of certain scholars to "do away with" mythicism, there will remain a vast body of literature from EUROPE of which these conceited and arrogant American-supremacist scholars seem to be completely ignorant.

Since these various evemerist and believing critics are so patently clueless about the vast mythicist research out of Europe, they are NOT experts on the subject of mythicism, and their commentary thereupon remains one born of ignorance, not authority. This point of non-expertise cannot be emphasized enough: All those who pretend to be knowledgeable about this subject, when they have not studied this enormous body of mythicist scholarship, in a variety of languages dating back centuries to the present time, are NOT experts, and they should not be treated as such.

On the contrary, it should be pointed out that they are indeed NOT experts - and that means all New Testament/biblical scholars/theologians who have little to no understanding of ancient mythology or the milieu of the day but whose narrowly confined areas of expertise leave them myopic and singularly unqualified to be making pronouncements in this field. There is no requirement whatsoever for these New Testament/biblical scholars to study anything remotely related to mythicism, including ancient mythology, and without this knowledge, they simply do not know what they are looking at.

Moreover, in the long run, I'd rather be in the company of the American Founding Fathers - a number of whom most certainly have dabbled in mythicist thought - than in that of these classless and infantile non-mythicist "scholars" and general ignoramuses who keep raising this falsehood.

Thomas Paine, Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, Count Volney, Ben Franklin - we're in good company, folks.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 12:45 pm 
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The "No Serious Mythicist Scholar" Fallacy

LOL, I love it! :lol: Thanks for posting all that, Acharya.

I'd really like to see your comments above get posted around. Maybe somebody we'll make a youtube video out of it? For folks reading this who may want to post a direct link to Acharya's post above simply left-click on that tiny white box in the upper right hand corner to the left of the date & time of each post just left of "Posted" gives you the direct link = viewtopic.php?p=24035#p24035

P.S. I'd like to add this to my comment above:

Quote:
“Religious freedom is one thing,” says Joan Bokaer, director of TheocracyWatch, a project of the Center for Religion, Ethics, and Social Policy (CRESP) at Cornell University. “But religious extremism is something completely different. What people aren’t aware of is just how deeply the radical religious right has penetrated our government—in all three branches. We really are very close to becoming a theocracy. People have reason to be worried.”

Watch these two documentaries:

1. Life and Liberty for All Who Believe
2. The Rise of Dominionism

Theocracy Watch: Dominion Theology (1/5)


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 11:47 pm 
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The Licona story is extraordinary. It shows the extent and the brittleness of the innerancy movement, and the lengths they will go to bully anyone who fails to sign up to their medieval idiocy.

If to be "evangelical" you must accept without demur that the resurrection involved a mass zombie attack, precisely as described by Matthew, America has a major problem with psychotic views in positions of extreme power.

Christopher Hitchens recently wrote an article on mad evangelism in the US military. The article, and my comments on it, are here.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:45 pm 
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Here's a good quote from an older text on mythicism, as cited on the Vridar website.

Quote:
Within perhaps the last twenty years the denial that Jesus ever existed has been changed from a paradox to almost a platitude for an increasing number of Rationalists, and occasionally a Christian of strong modernist leanings shows himself more or less sympathetic to it. So far as England is concerned, the redoubtable J. M. Robertsons’ five works on the subject, beginning with Christianity and Mythology (pub. 1899) would seem to have been the principal factor in this transformation. His weight of learning, unhappily not always accurate, stuns the average reader, if he is not biased against the Mythicist thesis, into acquiescence. Of other English Mythicists Thomas Whittaker and L. Gordon Rylands, who have both brought much scholarship and acumen to bear on their task, are chiefly worthy of note. The former’s exposition of Van Manen’s theories on the Pauline Epistles is an admirable piece of work.

Two important foreign works, one German and the other Dutch, were translated into English shortly before the first World War; these are Arthur Drews’s The Christ Myth and Dr. Van Eysinga’s Radical Views about the New Testament. The former shows the least sense of what a critical method is, and in places reads like a parody of the thesis it is concerned to defend; its chief value lies in the mass of interesting data accumulated. Dr. Van Eysinga is a soberer critic, and, being a professional theologian, he avoids the amateurish note this class of literature so often betrays.

In quite a different category is Couchoud’s learned and charming book, The Creation of Christ; this has been excellently translated from the French by Mr. C. B. Bonner and was presented to the English public as recently as 1938. A year earlier appeared Mr. A. Brodie Sanders’s abridgement of Dujardin’s Le Dieu Jésus and La Prèmière Génération Chrétienne under the title of The Ancient History of the God Jesus. Edouard Dujardin is an eminent Biblical critic, whose radicalism on questions of Old Testament origins far outstrips Wellhausen. His views about a prehistoric Palestinian God Jesus, originally a totemistic eel, are very startling, but, in the opinion of the present writer, critically and psychologically unsound.

W. B. Smith’s Ecce Deus, a work of immense erudition, written by a professor of mathematics in the U.S.A., was published not long after Drews’s book on the Christ myth. W. B. Smith could write with equal facility in English and German. His Der Vorchristliche Jesus, published earlier than Ecce Deus, has not so far appeared in an English dress.

Able opponents of the Mythicists have been forthcoming on the Continent. It is sufficient to draw attention to such important names as Maurice Goguel, Alfred Loisy, and Charles Guignebert. One wonders why no one has seen fit to translate Guignebert’s Le Problème de Jésus. His Jésus, now translated, is a monument of painstaking criticism by a professional scholar, who fights shy of all extravagances.

Few English scholars seem to have troubled to refute the Mythicists. Such refutations as do exist nearly all emanate from the side of orthodoxy or semi-orthodoxy. We may note here three works as worthy or careful study; two of them are by Christians. The Rev. T. J. Thorburn’s Jesus the Christ, Historical or Mythical? deals very fully, and often shrewdly, with the arguments of Robertson and other Mythicists, and undoubtedly scores many points; but its theological conservatism must severely circumscribe the limits of its appeal. Abler and more cautious is Dr. H. G. Woods’s Did Christ Really Live? The shakiness of so many of Robertson’s Pagan parallels to Gospel stories, as well as his frequent self-contradictions, are here exposed with a quiet urbanity by a liberal-minded Christian, who had a very high regard for Robertson’s personal integrity and great intellectual power. F. C. Connybeare’s The Historical Christ is a caustic retort by a stalwart Rationalist, with a rather conservative bias on questions of New Testament criticism; it is lucidly and skilfully reasoned, laying bare many misstatements of fact and logical fallacies, but by its occasional misunderstandings and misrepresentations (of course unintentional) it was bound to cause the irritation it did.

The present writer feels that the time has arrived when it is desirable to argue out the whole position afresh in the light of the most recent Biblical criticism, taking into account recent palaeographical discoveries which seem to throw back the dates of the Gospels to an earlier time than the Mythicists are willing to admit. The ideological setting of the Gospel legend, the sources and interaction of the two main streams of Christological evolution, and the parallelism between the rise of Christianity and other cults of apotheosized heroes or propagandists are also discussed. Naturally, much of this book has a negative aspect, for its main concern is to expose the weakness of the Mythicist’s case; but it was important at least to suggest a counter-construction. The author is not a professional scholar, but he has had something of a theological training, being the son of a clergyman of the Church of England, whose calling he once hoped to follow.

The argument is conducted by one who does not disclaim the title of “Rationalist,” for he believes that the light of reason should be allowed to play freely on all human problems; but perhaps “Humanistic Mystic” would better describe his cosmic outlook. He has not discussed metaphysical issues here, and though he would heartily subscribe to Matthew Arnold’s “miracles do not happen” as a sound principle for the critical historian, he no less heartily echoes Hamlet’s “there are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamed of in your philosophy.”

A. D. Howell Smith.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:36 pm 
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I'm loving this image!

I was telling a Buddhist scholar friend that this tidal wave of mythicism is unstoppable, and he agreed, noting, of course, that stubborn souls will stand in the way at every turn.

In the image below someone posted on my Facebook timeline - which is being passed around pretty impressively on FB - you can see that the mythicist position is the one it ends up with, as the "true" interpretation of Jesus!

Atheists see Jesus as a supernatural monstrosity, but a historical personage nonetheless under the layers of impossibilities - that's been a typical evemerist viewpoint. (Oddly enough, American Atheists founder's son Jon Murray was a mythicist, but other atheists are positively vicious about attacking mythicists.)

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:37 am 
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Great picture, Acharya. :)

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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 2:09 pm 
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Another Christian professor bites the dust for even hinting at being slightly honest about Jesus:

Quote:
When Ideology and Indoctrination are More Important Than Education: The Bizarre Firing of Anthony Le Donne

"I am writing with disappointing news. After over a year of pressure from Lincoln Christian University donors, concerned citizens, and certain employees, the president of the university has decided to terminate my employment. I have been told that this decision is in direct response to the publication of my popular-level book, Historical Jesus (Eerdmans, 2011). I have no doubt that the LCU administration made a staunch effort on my behalf, but eventually needed to assuage the fears of (what I am told) is a largely anti-intellectual constituency.

"Many of you have emailed with sympathies. Thank you for your concern. I can honestly say that I am quite well. I hold no animosity toward the administration of LCU and I am grateful for the opportunity to have met so many kindred spirits here in central Illinois. My deepest feeling at this point is concern for the colleagues I leave behind at LCU. The phrases “scapegoat”, “akademische Freiheit,” and “the state of evangelical higher education” have been frequent refrains in the many supportive emails I’ve received in the last week. I feel no need to make any statements at this point about these topics. I will only say that I remain proud of my work and stand behind it."

Anthony Le Donne, PhD
anthonyledonne.com

Quote:
The dismissal of Dr. Le Donne is a serious breech of academic ethics and standards and an open breech with the principles of the university. Lincoln Christian should be censured by the Anerican scholarly community and those societies which are committed to maintaining the academic standards of the study and teaching of religion, the Bible and theology, such as the Society of Biblical literature and the American Academy of Religion. I would urge all American scholars to boycott any association with Lincoln and to advise their colleagues not to work for or seek employment with Lincoln until the harm done to Dr. Le Donne’s career has been redressed.

Thomas L. Thompson
Professor emeritus, University of Copenhagen

Quote:
Anthony LeDonne fired by Lincoln Christian College

"I sense that the current climate of American evangelicalism is becoming increasingly hostile to evangelical scholars who are perceived to be “conceding ground” to so-called “liberal” or “progressive” Christians. There are many subjects that cause great contention (e.g. see my “The ten most difficult doctrinal/theological subjects that contemporary Christians must address.”) and if a professor finds himself on the wrong side of administration, a board member, or a prominent donor on any one of them there is a good chance that unemployment is in their future."

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 Post subject: Mythicistophobia
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:24 pm 
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Mythicistophobia

Are you a victim of Mythicistophobia? :lol:

We need organizations to lobby for us and to suppress free speech so no one will criticize us ever again, or else we can accuse them of suffering from mental illness and have the Department of Justice investigate them.

Here is a mythicistophobe shrieking at a mythicist.



The Jesus Mythicists' Creed

By the way, my buddy Bob Eisenman is more of a historicizer who somehow finds a "real person" under all the mythical and midrashic layers. He doesn't need to cling to a supposed historical Jesus in order to maintain some semblance of a historical James, however. Bob mischievously avoided answering my question of whether or not he agrees with the following statement:

The "Jesus Christ" of the New Testament is a fictional composite of characters, real and mythical. A composite of multiple "people" is no one.

I guess that statement should be called the Jesus Mythicists' Creed. If you say "Aye!" to the JM creed, you're a Jesus mythicist. That's it. Very simple. :twisted:

It should be noted that there have been plenty of Moses mythicists among academia over the past couple of centuries. Apparently, it's perfectly okay to question Moses's historicity, with all its fabulous fairytales, supernatural events and utter lack of a historical and archaeological record. In fact, it's almost de rigeur among academicians to sneer at the very notion of the Exodus and the rest serving as history. So, Moses mythicists are to be respected.

But the equally implausible tale of the New Testament, likewise full of fabulous fairytales, supernatural events and a complete dearth of scientific evidence - now, questioning THAT, well, that's just completely insane. Even when the precedent of Moses is factored in, making us just a bit suspicious of such biblical tales, it's still just plain cuckoo to suspect as nonhistorical the virgin-born son of God who walked on water, raised the dead, turned water into wine, transfigured on a mount next to two ghosts, resurrected from death and bodily flew off into the sky.

Thus, Jesus mythicists are to be loathed and despised at all costs.

Stay tuned for my Moses mythicist book, Did Moses Exist? The Myth of the Israelite Lawgiver. It's coming along quite nicely, although, as usual, much more time-consuming than I had anticipated, because, as usual, I am being thorough. Like Christ Con, the true story behind the scenes is somewhat infuriating. Moses as a myth has been known for centuries but the information has been suppressed - what else is new?

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:41 pm 
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Shocking news: Biblical scholars are mostly Christians

Atheists in Biblical Scholarship (on Prof. Bauerlein’s ‘Haidt Speech’ Post)

Why Young People Are Becoming Secular

More Young Americans Doubt God Exists Than Ever Before:

Young Americans Losing Faith? New Poll Shows 31 Percent Of Adults Under 30 Doubt God Exists

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 10:12 pm 
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A recent article by my buddy Bob Eisenman, "The 'James Ossuary' and its authenticity redux."

Although he remains coy, Eisenman inches closer to full disclosure:

Quote:
So here it is: "James, the brother of Jesus, was so well known and important as a Jerusalem Religious Leader in his day, according to First-Century sources, that taking this 'brother' relationship seriously (as I have said in all my published work) is perhaps the best confirmation that there ever was an 'Historical Jesus.' Put another way, it is not whether 'Jesus' had a 'brother,' but rather whether 'the brother' had a 'Jesus.' Now, we are suddenly presented with this very 'proof' - the discovery, allegedly near Jerusalem, of an ossuary inscribed with 'James, son of Joseph, brother of Jesus,' in the Aramaic used at that time.

Hmmm, is he saying that this "convenient" artifact comes at the right time to counter the scholarship exposing the Jesus myth, designed to shore up the faith? A conspiracy?!

While my coy friend dances around, another acquaintance, Sam Butler, in an essay "What do the Dead Sea Scrolls say about Jesus?" is making the following claim:

Quote:
He (Professor Eisenman) never answered the faxes until one day his assistant called and everything was made crystal clear. There was no mention of Jesus in the Dead Sea Scrolls because Jesus as a living historical figure, in their theory, did not exist. They could not state that publicly because of the fear of an outcry, but that was the situation.

I found the transaction difficult to follow, but I think we get the point of the above. I'll probably get an answer from Bob at some point.

Come on, Bob, come out of the mythicist closet! :twisted:

The JM creed is simple and scientifically accurate:

The "Jesus Christ" of the New Testament is a fictional composite of characters, real and mythical. A composite of multiple "people" is no one.

Don't you agree?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:46 pm 
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Jesus mythicism and the impotence of Biblical Studies, or: biblical scholars and gradeschoolers A statement by René Salm

"In his book The End of Biblical Studies (2007) Hector Avalos writes that “attending a session of an annual meeting [of the SBL] is a study in irrelevance” (p. 308). It’s probably one of the milder statements in the book. In fact, scholars have only themselves to blame. For decades now they’ve not only busied themselves with minutiae in which no one else is interested but have (more egregiously) confined their vision to the safe parameters of Sunday School and synagogue—which is, after all, the historical vision of your average gradeschooler. I submit that this linkage between scholars and gradeschoolers should be kept in mind for, despite their demonstrated erudition, biblical scholars are amazingly timid when it comes to challenging the cultural delusions that presently pass for religious history. Biblical scholars examine minutiae with care but steadfastly refuse to connect the dots. It’s a curious situation, a little like going to the store and paying the money but not bringing home the bacon. Well, we all know the reason: aligning themselves with popular opinion and institutional power, scholars continue to steadfastly refuse to seriously consider anything which might shake the tent of tradition. I mean, their jobs are at stake.

Over half the U.S. teaching posts in biblical studies are in confessional institutions of higher learning (Avalos:316). Since there are not many teaching posts to begin with, that leaves very few positions where any serious consideration of non-traditional views could be expected. But, of course, even in public institutions there is enormous pressure to toe the traditional line and not to make waves, if only because tenure for religious studies professors in public institutions is declining precipitously and part-time employment is greatly increasing. I commiserate. Biblical Studies profs have families to feed, papers to grade, and all those minutiae to examine—besides vacations in Disneyland to plan and the unceasing pressure of publishing. Life is tough—except perhaps during the summer, and when on sabbatical in Oxford, and when attending all those conferences paid for by the boss…

Where does that leave an idea like “Jesus didn’t exist”? Mercy! Is there any idea better calculated to get religious studies professors running for the exits? With Jews the situation is similar—simply substitute “David” for “Jesus” in the above question and watch the room empty of academics."

* SNIP *

Quote:
"Today, the view of Jesus held by all churches now confronts a radically dissimilar view which threatens those churches to their very core. The mythicist is bringing forward evidence that Jesus never existed. He is doing so with arguments based upon well-reasoned scholarly data. Right now it is fashionable to lampoon mythicism as a crank view held by a tiny number of fringe amateurs, a view that has ‘suddenly’ appeared and which must soon pass. But this is ill-taken. Jesus mythicism has its roots in scholarship itself and has been around for a long time. Like a plant whose roots have long been hidden underground, its flourishing at this time is not an aberration but a sudden blossoming above ground, the natural result of a process which has benefited from a good deal of preparation.

Finally, I’d like to say that mythicism involves more than Jesus. The mythicist shows that Peter never existed, that the apostles never existed, that Paul too may be a fiction, and that most of the episodes in the New Testament are the stuff of imagination. The mythicist claims that there was no virgin birth, no multiplication of loaves, no walking on water, no bodily resurrection from the dead, and no atonement for anyone’s sins. He has the tools to demonstrate that Christianity as we know it was a late arrival fashioned by Greeks for Greeks, with a fantastic God-man as unbelievable as is the Superman of our comicbooks. The mythicist is able to put the lie to Christian lies, is able to show that no Bethlehem nor Nazareth existed at the turn of the era, and that Jesus is quite as fictive as the Wizard of Oz.

A wholesale and very radical rewrite of Christian origins is the only possible outcome of current investigations into Christian origins. Academe has made it perfectly clear that such a rewrite will not come from within its hallowed halls. By default, then, we see the cutting edge of biblical studies increasingly populated by those outside of academe, including educated and committed amateurs.

The mythicist must be taken seriously, for he is increasingly showing that his case is demonstrable. The Christian, on the other hand, can demonstrate only his faith.

—René Salm"

A Mythicist Statement by René Salm

A history of Jesus mythicism

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:18 pm 
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Hear, hear!

Glorious words, Mr. Salm.

Mythicism has SCIENCE on its side.

I am reminded of a fantastic quote by Rev. Dr. Alexander Geddes, persecuted for his doubting of various biblical tales as literal. He was a mythicist particularly when it came to Moses but not Jesus, whom he wanted to strip of all Jewish and Pagan folderol in order to find a "pristine Jesus" whom we "JM'ers" know today to be a phantom.

Quote:
"On the whole then I think it may be laid down as an axiom that the bulk of Christians, whether Papists or Protestants, cannot be said to have a rational faith, because their motives of credibility are not rational motives but the positive assertions of an assumed authority, which they have never discussed, or durst not question: their religion is the fruit of unenlightened credulity. A very small number of curious and learned men only, have thoroughly examined the motives of their religious belief, in any communion: and it will be found, I presume, that the more curious and learned they were, the less they generally believed. Hence, perhaps, the old adage: Ignorance is the mother of devotion

“In the Hebrew scriptures are many beauties, many excellent precepts, much found morality: and they deserve the attentive perusal of every scholar, every person of curiosity and taste. All those good things I admit, and admire, and would equally admire them in the writings of Plato, Tully, or Marcus Antoninus: but there are other things in great abundance, which I can neither admire nor admit; without renouncing common sense, and superseding reason: a sacrifice which I am not disposed to make, for any writing in the world."

Rev. Dr. Alexander Geddes, Critical Remarks on the Hebrew Scriptures (1.v-vi)

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