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PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 9:00 am 
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In contrast, as an SDA I was raised to think that the whole of evangelical Christianity who believe in the secret rapture doctrine have fallen for a massive trick of the devil trying to deceive and confuse people about the second coming. Here's an example of a guy preaching the 'evils of the rapture doctrine' at: www.secret-rapture.com

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What is the Secret rapture theory?

According to those teaching the secret rapture theory, the coming of Jesus will be in two separate stages. The first will be a secret rapture of the Church at the beginning of a seven year tribulation period followed by a glorious, triumphant return of Christ to the Earth accompanied by the Church at the end of the seven year period. They believe that during this seven year period the Antichrist is going to come into power and God will select and seal 144,000 literal Jews who will take the Gospel to the whole world converting immeasurable souls to Christ. They also believe the battle of Armageddon is a literal national war against literal Israel, which occurs near the end of the seven years and is brought to a halt by Christ’s return with His Church. Then literal Israel accepts the Lord as the Messiah and enters with Him as His covenant people into the 1,000 year (millennial) reign on earth known as the Kingdom Age. Christ will rule directly over the earth from the throne of David in Jerusalem, where the typical temple services function again. Those who ultimately reject Christ’s rule are eventually judged and destroyed at the end of the Millennium. The new believers will then receive immortality and eternity will begin.

However, the Bible nowhere speaks of these two separate comings and the word “rapture” is also an invention of theologians and occurs nowhere in the Bible. The deception does not stop there, Christians also debate whether we will be taken before the tribulation or in the middle of the seven years or at the completion of the seven year tribulation. These are called pre-tribulation, mid-tribulation and post tribulation. Now for the most amazing part of these views in regards to the seven year tribulation period; are you ready for this? It was manufactured by a Jesuit Priest who was commissioned to come up with this false interpretation of Bible Prophecy. This raises many questions, such as why was this done and how could so many be drawn into this lie. I hope you will read on as we cover all aspects of this topic and reveal the Bible truth.

Does the Bible teach there is a Secret Rapture?

This is a brief point by point account of the order of events according to Scripture; there is Christ’s second coming, the resurrection, the catching up of the saints to meet Jesus in the air which all take place at the same time and at the end of the world. This is why Jesus said in Matthew 28:20 “…and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world.” Why would Jesus promise to be with the Church until the end of the world if He intended to come seven years before the end to take them out of the world? The promise would then have no meaning.

This false doctrine on the secret rapture is contradictory to the words of Jesus in Matthew 13 when He said the wheat and tares would grow together until the “end of the world” and then would be separated. According to this dual coming secret rapture theory, both groups would not grow together until the end of the world. The righteous would be separated from the wicked seven years before the end. And what about the promise of the resurrection? Christ said, concerning the righteous, John 6:40 “…and I will raise him up at the last day.” No one denies that this means the last day of the world. Paul declares the saints are caught up to meet the Lord at the “same time” the dead in Christ are raised. He says, 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 “For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.” Did you note that Jesus called this resurrection the “last day?” But how could it be the “last day” if this gathering of the saints takes place seven years before the end of the world? And how could the “last trump” (see 1 Corinthians 15:52 below) sound if it really wasn’t the very last moment of time? Imagine the graves opening and the righteous rising and no one knowing that it had occurred? Consider also the added testimony from God’s Word;

Matthew 24:27 “For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.”

Matthew 24:30 “And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.”

Matthew 24:31 “And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.” (This is clearly the time when Christ comes to gather His saints.)

1 Corinthians 15:52 “In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.”

Revelation 1:7 “Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.”

Revelation 6:16-17 “And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?”

There is no understood scripture that says the second coming of Christ to gather His saints will be a secret rapture. All these verses show it will be a very loud and very visible event that every eye shall see. There is nothing secret about any aspect of His coming. Those believing in the secret rapture sometimes quote Matthew 24:40-41 out of context. The entire passage reads;

Matthew 24:37-41 “But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.”

Jesus is demonstrating the parallels between the days of Noah and the second coming of Christ. The eight that entered Noah’s Ark were saved and those that scoffed perished as the flood “took them all away.” Many have been taught that the ones taken are the ones saved but note it is actually the ones taken that are destroyed. There was no second chance. Jesus said and “so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.” The last verse of this chapter tells us what will happen to those who are taken to destruction. Matthew 24:51 “And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

Those believing in the secret rapture also quote Jesus in saying He will come as a thief in the night, meaning it will be a secret rapture. Jesus said in Matthew 24:43-44 “But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. 44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.” Jesus is not talking about coming secretly but coming unexpectedly when we least expect Him and so the wicked will be taken by surprise. This is why Jesus tells us to be ready as we know not the hour of His return. Those who are not right with Christ and living wickedly when Jesus returns we will be taken to destruction as in the days of Noah. See Matthew 24:37-41 above. See also 2 Thessalonians 2:8.

1 Thessalonians 5:2 is also quoted which reads, “For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.” Same message as before be ready for Christ’s unexpected return. And what happens after His return? 1 Thessalonians 5:3 “For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.” How secret is sudden destruction? Those that are left after Jesus’ return encounter “sudden destruction.” Again, just like in the days of Noah.

These two “thief texts” are also used to teach a secret rapture. Revelation 3:3 “Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.” Revelation 16:15 “Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.” In both these instances just quoted, the secrecy is also in connection with the timing not the nature of the event, and is exactly the same as the other “thief texts.” Notice the phrase in chapter 3:3 which says “hold fast, and repent” and the last part of verse 15 which says “lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.”

This is once again a warning to be not caught living in sin, because we know not the hour which Jesus will return. He will come unexpectedly when you least expect it as does a thief. It would be no good for the thief if you knew when he was coming as you would be ready for him and he could not rob you. In the same way we need to be ready and living in righteousness now and not just when we think Jesus is coming or we will be “caught naked and our shame seen.” Those who love and obey Jesus will be ready for His return. This is the meaning of the phrase “to come as a thief” that is used several times in the Bible to warn us so we will not be left behind.

And still one more. 2 Peter 3:10 says “But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.”

Again, absolutely nothing secret. To the contrary, it could not be more obvious. It states after Jesus comes unexpectedly as does a thief, “the heavens shall pass away with a great noise” and “the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth … shall be burned up.” So when Jesus returns the very next thing is the end i.e. the last day. If coming “as a thief” is a secret rapture which takes place seven years before the end of the world, how can the heavens and earth “pass away” as Peter describes it? Three of these “thief texts” are all followed by the same unmistakable catastrophic sudden destruction. Coming as a thief is unexpected, NOT a secret!



It looks like this zealous preacher needs to compare the Old King James Version with the New King James Verson. Is it the "End of the World" or the "End of the Age"? :lol:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/5020364/End-o ... of-the-Age.

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The Jesus Mythicist Creed:
The "Jesus Christ" of the New Testament is a fictional composite of characters, real and mythical. A composite of multiple "people" is no one.

The celestial Origins of Religious Belief
ZG Part 1
Jesus: Hebrew Human or Mythical Messiah?


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 12:27 am 
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There is no End Times because there is no ultimate TIME.

There is an ultimate creator. There are lesser Gods who are allowed to create under the supervision of the ultimate creator. And there are stupid monkeys on one particular planet in one particular solar system in one particular galaxy of one particular universe who think they are the center of all creation.


But that doesn't mean that God doesn't love you :D

God ain't gonna Zap you home. You gotta earn that one.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 8:22 pm 
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A little taste of evangelical end times from John Hagee. You can just feel the love that keeps Christianity alive in the USA today.

John Hagree: The Great Tribulation part 1



part 2




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PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 6:14 pm 
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Here is an email I just sent to someone asking about my views on end times and magical thinking.

My current thinking regarding 2012 sets it against the precession of the equinox, with the mythic interpretation of precession providing a framework for the structure of time. I endeavour to set such speculation entirely within a scientific framework, hence my lack of patience for most 'magical' thinking, as per my recent responseon zodiac nodes. Although I reject supernatural ideas, I believe that humanity needs a coherent mythos to provide a narrative explanation of our place in the cosmos. We can interpret ancient wisdom against scientific knowledge to formulate a new mythos.

What I mean by 'magical' is that I find the Vedic vision of the Yuga cycle informative as a way to interpret the structure of time against the spin wobble of the Great Year. In my view, the Yuga cycle, understood as the 24,000 year rough period of precession, provides the real underlying cosmic basis for Western mythology. This cosmology also provides a scientific basis to interpret the Biblical idea of fall and redemption as a central human myth. As I see it, the Bible contains a coherent secret teaching of the perennial philosophy, interpreted as the slow cycle from golden to iron ages as markers of precession. Basically, the Golden Age is when the March equinox is north of the Milky Way, and the Iron Age is when the March equinox is south of the Milky Way, with the intermediate ages of fall and rise occurring as the equinoxes cross the Milky Way. Hence the widespread ancient myth of the gates of heaven at Taurus/Gemini and Scorpio/Sagittarius corresponds to a range of Biblical images - the cherubim with flaming sword guarding the entrance to paradise, the four creatures of Ezekiel and revelation, the four ages of Daniel, the river of life as the Milky Way, the holy city and the tree of life as zodiac images, and numerous gospel images. In my view all these cohere as part of a natural cosmic theology, explaining much of the Biblical choice of seemingly obscure images in specific and explicit terms. My interest now is to develop a rigorous explanation of how precession is encoded within the Bible, a topic that I do not think has previously been anywhere near adequately addressed.

How this relates to 2012 is that the period when the solstice crosses the Milky Way is a turning point in the cosmic cycle of fall and redemption, a half way low point between the moments when the equinoxes cross the galaxy in c.4300BC and c.8500 AD. I think of Jesus Christ in primarily mythic terms as the Avatar of the Golden Age in the Midst of the Iron Age. The complexity of natural cycles means there are many turning points across the bottom of the Iron Age. These include the movement of the equinox from Aries into Pisces at the time of Christ in 11 AD, the Jupiter-Saturn-Neptune conjunctions in Pisces in 53 AD and 1521 AD and 2020-26 AD, and the movement of the equinox into Aquarius in about 2148 AD. The current generational movement of the solstice across the galaxy fits with these other natural events as a marker of the shift of Ages.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 5:24 am 
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Do we really need to provide a narrative explanation of our place in the cosmos?

The human attribute I see as pattern is fear. Perhaps it is this fear of being insignificant that keeps humanity searching for some kind of higher purpose of existence. Existence with purpose provides safety.

If religion is centered around knowledge of the sun rising again, one week following the next, seasons in a repeating cycle and one year following the other. Is this not then a comforting assuring prediction of the future. Predictions that created the first ideas about a concept known as destiny.
The shift of ages seems to follow same pattern as the other cycles humanity have created a system out of. Only different in the incredible and unimaginable complexity and magnitude creating pattern separated as "ages".

When connecting astronomy and shift of ages with periods of human civilization, it is important to understand that it is humanity itself that created concepts used to divide periods into some kind of system. Moving from the "bronze age" to the "iron age" is centered around selected cultures. The Maya culture is one example that shows there was no sudden and "universal" shift of periods.

Perhaps my personal view is very influenced by rejection of what the idea of humanity and civilization developing in connection to specific periods in time indicates. Concept of humanity limited and under control of external "forces" is nothing but sad. The idea of not being able to change or influence how civilization and society develops have never contributed to anything.

Religion is to my knowledge also centered around the idea that humans, thus humanity, is only limited by choice. A choice open to change at any time.

"It is the coward and the fool who says this is his fate. But it is the strong man who stands up and says I will make my own fate." - Swami Vivekananda

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Never place blame on man, because it happens to all. No matter how wise, a fool he becomes, when love steals his powers.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 9:44 am 
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Hey guys, I just got around to watching "Knowing" with Nicholas Cage. It was interesting to note that the writers tried to make use of the 'wheel within a wheel' vision along with the 'four beasts'. Taking this approach to interpreting the symbolism as referring to alien space craft and angel looking aliens seems very inspired by the book "Chariots of the Gods". The aliens could foresee future events and knew that a super solar flare would consume the earth with fire. It was funny watching the direction they were trying to take with this film.

Most people are oblivious as to the astrological symbolism theme in the bible and so they tend to take off on wild speculation about what these obscure prophecies mean or could mean. The four signs of the zodiac is given as four literal aliens coming to take the children away in a space ship that was meant to be the real meaning of the 'wheel within a wheel' symbolism, which is simply a blatant reference to the larger circle of the reversed precessional zodiac with the smaller annual zodiac inside of it. All of this wild fantasy is basically a side track away from ever realizing what the biblical symbolism is actually referring to. I don't find it speculative at all to suggest that this is a very straight forward illustration of the zodiac in Ezekiel's vision.

But it doesn't have to be a side track completely because it can also become a step in the right direction as well because in my case I took off reading "Chariots of the Gods" because I found it in my grandfathers study after he passed away. It belonged to my great father originally who had been reading it in his retirement in his last years before passing. They were both interested in alternative views about what the biblical symbolism may mean. This focus having passed down to my generation resulted in me going past all of these alien theories and eventually coming head long into discovering the astrotheological structure of ancient religion and how it very specifically applies to the Judeo-Christian effort.

I believe that this astrotheological knowledge is the real "Knowing" that people are seeking to discover. But when receiving it the older ideas that neglect to address the astrological symbolism aspect of the obscure beasts, jewels, and images pass away. It isn't even about two literal wheels nor four literal creatures. It isn't some space ship and four alien beings with advanced universal knowledge. It's simply an ancient allegory expressed as prophetic vision based on the only way the ancients had of trying to forecast long term predictions about the state of the earth. Once it was understood that the earths axis wobbles and that this wobble causes the stars and contellations to move in back and forth directions in the sky all of the Great Year mythology came into being. All of these "End Times" prophecies must be understood from this perspective if they are to be understood at all. We can tell that they are using blatant references to the precession of the equinoxes, but the exact details of what they were trying to express with their use of this symbolism is still some what vague. I can only assume that all of these references to the "ages" and the zodiac given in reverse order points to the bible writers understanding something about the Vedic Yuga and Greek Golden through Iron age concepts and wrote their allegories with this Great Year cycle in mind. It was the only method they had for long range time keeping and astronomer priestly class oriented predicting. It seems very obvious that the big deal with the NT era breaking out in the century following the completion of one Great Year cycle is no coincidence at all. Nor is it a coincidence that the future age of Aquarius is mentioned and outlined several times in the NT. It all has to do with specific points of interest in the earths wobble. They figured, based on these models, that as we came up on the end of the current world age "knowledge" will greatly increase. It says so in the bible. But why? The answer is obvious when you realize that the "age to come" is themed around "Knowledge". That just what the age of Aquarius is designed around. So to look at one of these astrological Great Year charts and the themes of each sign of the Great Year, one would get the impression that "knowledge" will be greatly increased as the end of the current age of Pisces draws nearer and nearer. An emphasis on "belief" in the current age begins to change towards an emphasis on "knowledge" in the age that follows. Now of course that's exactly what has happened through the history of the common era. Just look around at the world and the rapid advancement of knowledge, technological and otherwise. But according to basic Darwinian linear progression the same holds true as well. Knowledge should increase any ways according to the linear model of time. So this match between prediction and outcome doesn't necessarily prove that the ancients astrological lore is a hard fact. But it's all interesting to consider nonetheless. They used the Great Year to make a guess at would the future of the current world age should hold as we near it's end and cross over into the beginning of the next world age.

_________________
The Jesus Mythicist Creed:
The "Jesus Christ" of the New Testament is a fictional composite of characters, real and mythical. A composite of multiple "people" is no one.

The celestial Origins of Religious Belief
ZG Part 1
Jesus: Hebrew Human or Mythical Messiah?


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 1:17 am 
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Thanks Tat.
I enjoyed that. I have never put much faith in modern day prophets or anyone
else who claims they know when the end is coming or even that it is getting near.
They tend to use the signs that Jesus said do not use. They draw their conclusions from
the book of Daniel that was written by at least two writers at different times in history.
Neither one intended for their "Prophecies" to cover a time any later than the reign of
the Greek Antoginus.
The ancient Hebrews were into astrology although you won't find many
Christians that will admit that. The Dead Sea Scrolls include a texts on astrology.
The Hebrews were not afraid to incorporate pagan beliefs into their religion.That included astrology.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:13 pm 
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Judgment Day!
May 21, 2011

The End of the World
October 21, 2011

Code:
http://www.ebiblefellowship.com/may21/

Quote:
Loose Christian movement says End of Days will occur in May

End of Days in May? Christian group spreads word

RALEIGH, N.C. – If there had been time, Marie Exley would have liked to start a family. Instead, the 32-year-old Army veteran has less than six months left, which she'll spend spreading a stark warning: Judgment Day is almost here.

Exley is part of a movement of Christians loosely organized by radio broadcasts and websites, independent of churches and convinced by their reading of the Bible that the end of the world will begin May 21, 2011.

To get the word out, they're using billboards and bus stop benches, traveling caravans of RVs and volunteers passing out pamphlets on street corners. Cities from Bridgeport, Conn., to Little Rock, Ark., now have billboards with the ominous message, and mission groups are traveling through Latin America and Africa to spread the news outside the U.S.

"A lot of people might think, 'The end's coming, let's go party,'" said Exley, a veteran of two deployments in Iraq. "But we're commanded by God to warn people. I wish I could just be like everybody else, but it's so much better to know that when the end comes, you'll be safe."

In August, Exley left her home in Colorado Springs, Colo., to work with Oakland, Calif.-based Family Radio Worldwide, the independent Christian ministry whose leader, Harold Camping, has calculated the May 21 date based on his reading of the Bible.

She is organizing traveling columns of RVs carrying the message from city to city, a logistics challenge that her military experience has helped solve. The vehicles are scheduled to be in five North Carolina cities between now and the second week of January, but Exley will shortly be gone: overseas, where she hopes to eventually make it back to Iraq.

"I don't really have plans to come back," she said. "Time is short."

Not everyone who's heard Camping's message is taking such a dramatic step. They're remaining in their day-to-day lives, but helping publicize the prophecy in other ways. Allison Warden, of Raleigh, has been helping organize a campaign using billboards, post cards and other media in cities across the U.S. through a website, We Can Know.

The 29-year-old payroll clerk laughs when asked about reactions to the message, which is plastered all over her car.

"It's definitely against the grain, I know that," she said. "We're hoping people won't take our word for it, or Harold Camping's word for it. We're hoping that people will search the scriptures for themselves."

Camping, 89, believes the Bible essentially functions as a cosmic calendar explaining exactly when various prophecies will be fulfilled.

The retired civil engineer said all his calculations come from close readings of the Bible, but that external events like the foundation of the state of Israel in 1948 are signs confirming the date.

"Beyond the shadow of a doubt, May 21 will be the date of the Rapture and the day of judgment," he said.

The doctrine known as the Rapture teaches that believers will be taken up to heaven, while everyone else will remain on earth for a period of torment, concluding with the end of time. Camping believes that will happen in October.

"If May 21 passes and I'm still here, that means I wasn't saved. Does that mean God's word is inaccurate or untrue? Not at all," Warden said.

The belief that Christ will return to earth and bring an end to history has been a basic element of Christian belief since the first century. The Book of Revelation, which comes last in the New Testament, describes this conclusion in vivid language that has inspired Christians for centuries.

But few churches are willing to set a date for the end of the world, heeding Jesus' words in the gospels of Mark and Matthew that no one can know the day or hour it will happen. Predictions like Camping's, though, aren't new. One of the most famous in history was by the Baptist leader William Miller, who predicted the end for Oct. 22, 1844, which came to be known as the Great Disappointment among his followers, some of whom subsequently founded the Seventh Day Adventist church.

"In the U.S., there is still a significant population, mostly Protestant, who look at the Bible as kind of a puzzle, and the puzzle is God's word and it's predicting when the end times will come," said Catherine Wessinger, a professor at Loyola University in New Orleans who studies millennialism, the belief in pending apocalypse.

"A lot of times these prophecies gain traction when difficulties are happening in society," she said. "Right now, there's a lot of insecurity, and this is a promise that says it's not all random, it's part of God's plan."

Past predictions that failed to come true don't have any bearing on the current calculation, believers maintain.

"It would be like telling the Wright brothers that every other attempt to fly has failed, so you shouldn't even try," said Chris McCann, who works with eBible Fellowship, one of the groups spreading the message.

For believers like McCann, theirs is actually a message of hope and compassion: God's compassion for people, and the hope that there's still time to be saved.

That, ultimately, is what spurs on Exley, who said her beliefs have alienated her from most of her friends and family. Her hope is that not everyone who hears her message will mock it, and that even people who dismiss her now might still come to believe.

"If you still want to say we're crazy, go ahead," she said. "But it doesn't hurt to look into it."
Code:
Online:

Family Radio Worldwide: http://www.familyradio.com

eBible Fellowship: http://www.ebiblefellowship.com

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2013 Astrotheology Calendar
The Mythicist Position
Christ in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection
Stellar House Publishing at Youtube


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:41 am 
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So, below we have Fox News pundit, Glenn Beck, discussing the 'end times' prophecies of Islam, which are very similar to the bible. I feel it's good for America and the entire western world to be fully informed on this issue. While Beck, same as Fox News, is not reliable, he certainly does get a few things right about Islam. However, as always with Beck or Fox more information is needed for clarification. So, I've provided more info from Media Matters below the top quote and I put the videos at the bottom.

Quote:
Glenn Beck: Some Muslims Want To Bring About The Antichrist (VIDEO)

"Glenn Beck theorized that some Muslims are trying to bring about the equivalent of the Antichrist on his Thursday show.

Beck claimed that he was bringing the issue up because Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmedinejad and the leader of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt both believe in the Twelfth Imam--a figure in Shia Islam who Beck and his guest, author Joel Richardson, said bore a disturbing resemblance to the Biblical Antichrist.

Beck and Richardson (who has written a book called "The Islamic Antichrist" that "makes the case that the biblical Antichrist is one and the same as the Quran's Muslim Mahdi"), cast the Twelfth Imam as a messiah (or Mahdi) who would bring about Judgment Day--but not before years of bloodshed and chaos which Beck told his audience people like the Iranian regime and the Muslim Brotherhood were trying to hasten....."

Quote:
Beck Ties Islam To The Antichrist

"On today's edition of his Fox News show, Glenn Beck tied Islam to the Antichrist described in the New Testament. He even had a side-by-side comparison of the Antichrist and the "12th Imam" or "Mahdi" (terms Beck uses interchangeably to describe the figure many Muslims believe will guide believers in the end times) on his chalkboard.

And to help Beck discuss this connection, Beck hosted Joel Richardson, an anti-Muslim activist who says that Satan will use Islam "to fulfill the prophesies of the Bible" and has written a column headlined "What Obama and the Antichrist have in common."

Although Beck says during the show that only a minority of Muslims have beliefs that should scare you, Richardson makes no such disclaimer. Rather, Richardson suggests that all Muslims (or at least all orthodox Muslims) desire the return of the Antichrist. Here are a couple of things he said:

* "You have the bad guy of the Bible. He primarily persecutes God's people, the Jews and the Christians. ... [The imam] likewise causes Jews and Christians either to submit to Islam or be killed. ... It's abundantly found throughout the Islamic sacred traditions known as the Hadith."

* "According to the Bible, the mark of the beast is a mark that is put on the foreheads that essentially condemns someone to hell. On the Islamic side, the Muslims have picked up on this tradition, except in Islamic tradition, the beast is a good guy, and he marks the foreheads of all true Muslims, and so, in essence, Muslims are desiring that they would receive the mark of the beast."

* "On the biblical side, Jesus returns to deliver his people from having been defeated and crushed, persecuted. On the Islamic side, the Muslim Jesus returns and tells the Christians of the world, you've had it wrong all along. Your Bible is corrupt. I never claimed to be the son of God. I never died on the cross. Islam is the true religion. Follow the Mahdi or die."

* "Most orthodox Muslims would say that this is sacred scripture that you cannot discard."

One more point: During the segment Beck also hosted Zuhdi Jasser, a Muslim. Jasser said that "The Quran talks about a few signs of the end of times, but most of the details you gave are from the Hadith," the oral sayings and deeds of Muhammad that are treated as holy by Muslims. Jasser continued: "Reform is I think going to happen in Islam when we start to discard parts of the Hadith that are not legitimate, that have been fabricated. And this is where there is some disagreement. So some of these stories come out of, I think, illegitimate Hadith, but others may be legitimate."

This is where Richardson states: "Most orthodox Muslims would say that this is sacred scripture that you cannot discard. He's essentially saying that it's discardible." So, Richardson is basically telling Jasser (a Muslim) that the more peaceful view of Islam is un-orthodox and that traditional Muslims hope to be united under the rule of the Antichrist who will kill Jews, Christians and nonbelievers. And Beck has given him a platform on national television. "

Glenn Beck 2011-02-17


“Rumors of War”: Catch up on the Middle East crisis

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 9:37 pm 
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Code:
Twelve Signs That We Are Very Near the End of the World
http://www.bibleplus.org/12signs.htm


Code:
"At the end of 6000 years, Jesus Christ will appear IN HIS GLORY (Matt.24:30; ... of God's 7000-year plan
http://www.triumphpro.com/6000-year-plan.htm

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 2:11 am 
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Dubious eschatological numerology, ahhh, takes me back.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 8:47 pm 
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Quote:
* "You have the bad guy of the Bible. He primarily persecutes God's people, the Jews and the Christians. ... [The imam] likewise causes Jews and Christians either to submit to Islam or be killed. ... It's abundantly found throughout the Islamic sacred traditions known as the Hadith."


Now why would this anti christ, the name makes me laugh everytime I hear it want to single out just Jews and christians? I mean if he intends to rule the world it will be comprised of more than just Jews and christians.....unless he's racists? :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 2:53 pm 
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This is known as a Fallacy of an Anachronism.

Definition: Judging one time period by the standards, mores, truths, or customs of another time, or analyzing a time period as if later customs, information, or standards were known at that time.

Nearly all Christians today are forcing current events upon an ancient text.

I equate the second coming with the destruction of the old covenant cultus under Moses with the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70 under Titus the Roman general. The picture of this coming destruction was foretold in the story of Jericho. Joshua (Jesus / Yahshua) encircles the city of Jericho blows the trumpet of God...like the angels at the coming of the Lord described by Jesus. The walls came down and Joshua was commanded by God to burn the city. Like Jericho, Jerusalem was hemmed in on every side, the trumpet sounded and the walls came down. Then the Romans burned the Temple and the city. This was after the 40 year wilderness wandering / 40 year transition between Jesus' death in AD 30 and His return in AD 70. Just as Joshua was leading his people into the old covenant promised land, Jesus was leading His people into the new and everlasting covenantal promised land. It's classic type anti-type.

The New Testament uses terms like "shortly", "quickly", "this generation", "will not tarry", "soon", "about to be", "at the door now", etc. to describe the coming of the Lord in the first century. These are terms of immanency which build as the New Testament progresses.

Jesus taught that some of them standing there (in the first century) would live to see it. Matthew 16:27-28, Matthew 24:34, Matthew 10:23 etc. This is also how the disciples would have understood it. I often tell Christians to imagine that they recieved the book of Revelation in the mail today. I then ask the question, "When would you think Jesus would return?'. They always say "soon". I then proceed to tell them that those letters were written to a first century audience. I then ask the question, "When did those people think Jesus would return?" The response I always get is "soon". Does the word soon have any meaning if it can be stretched over a 2000 year period? Christians must realize that they are in effect reading someone else's mail and that these words had meaning to those to whom they were first written.

The coming of Christ was a coming in judgment against the people who murdered the prophets (Matthew 23:35), disciples, and ultimately Christ. Jesus' whole ministry is based upon this event that would come upon those in the first century. This is why John the Baptist asked the Pharisees of his day, "Who warned you of the wrath about to come?" (Matthew 3:7) The ax was already laid at the root of the tree ready to be cut down.

The book of Revelation is a detailed description of the Harlot city (Jerusalem) who became like Sodom, Egypt and Babylon. "And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified (Revelation 11:8. I only know of one city where "our Lord was crucified"...Jerusalem! They were found guilty and judged in the AD 70 destruction, not leaving one stone upon another just as Jesus foretold in His public ministry some 35-40 years prior. The banquet feast at his coming was the flesh of men whom tormented and persecuted those that kept the faith. In other words, it was sweet revenge for all of the righteous blood spilled throughout the Hebrews history.

One last example:

Please read 2 Thessalonians 1:1-7 and answer these 6 questions.

1. Who wrote this letter?
2. To whom was it written?
3. What were these people undergoing?
4. What did Paul promise them?
5. Did these people get what Paul promised them?
6. When did they receive this promise?

If the first century Thessalonian Christians did not receive what Paul promised them, then Paul gave them a false hope and therefore lied to them. This would imply that the Bible is worthless. On the other hand, if those first century believers did receive what Paul promised them, then verse 7 has already happened. There is no other possibility because the Thessalonians of that era are no longer living.

Most Christians never think that the second coming may be in our past rather than our future. They almost all assume that the coming is future to us, rather than being in the immediate future of those living in that age. I guess the future is more entertaining to think about rather than boring history. ;-)

QUOTE FROM Eusebius Theophania (310 AD)

The Theophania, or Divine Manifestation of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ

BY

EUSEBIUS
Bishop of Caesarea
(c. 265 - 340)

Extract from the 'Theophania' :

"All authorities concur in the declaration that "when all these things should have been done" "The End" should come : that "the mystery of God should be finished as he had declared to His servants the prophets" : it should be completed : time should now be no more : the End of all things (so foretold) should be at hand, and be fully brought to pass : in these days should be fulfilled all that had been spoken of Christ (and of His church) by the prophets : or, in other words, when the gospel should have been preached in all the world for a testimony to all nations, and the power of the Holy People be scattered (abroad), then should the End come, then should all these things be finished. I need now only say, all these things have been done : the old and elementary system passed away with a great noise; all these predicted empires have actually fallen, and the new kingdom, the new heaven and earth, the new Jerusalem--all of which were to descend from God, to be formed by His power, have been realised on earth ; all these things have been done in the sight of all the nations ; God's holy arm has been made bare in their sight: His judgments have prevailed, and they remain for an everlasting testimony to the whole world. His kingdom has come, as it was foretold it should, and His will has, so far, been done; His purposes have been finished; and, from that day to the extreme end of time, it will be the duty, as indeed it will be the great privilege of the Church, to gather into its bosom the Jew, the Greek, the Scythian, the Barbarian, bond and free; and to do this as the Apostles did in their days--in obedience, faith and hope.' "

20 "Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation; 21 nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’[a] For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.” -Luke 17:20-21

According to the passage above, the nature of the kingdom is spiritual rather than physical. Christians today do not have those spiritual eyes that see, or ears that hear.

--Arten


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 7:31 pm 
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Quote:
Nearly all Christians today are forcing current events upon an ancient text.


No truer words have I heard than those above.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:47 pm 
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Quote:
Who is the Mahdi?

"There has been much talk of late about the Muslim Messiah, called the "Mahdi," whose arrival is eagerly awaited by the Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, among others. Indeed, the Iranian leadership recently reiterated its belief that the precious Mahdi would be arriving "soon," a belief very similar to that of many Christians, who have been awaiting "Christ's return" for the past nearly 2,000 years. Any day now, they have insisted since then. The same can be said of the supposed coming of the Muslim messiah, which has been imminent for centuries, according to fervent Islamic belief.

This "End Times" scenario is very important, because it overshadows practically everything that happens on a global scale - and because it threatens all life on Earth with its apocalyptic vision of Armageddon that so many millions are actually attempting to bring to fruition........"

Please read the full blog & sources at the bottom for further reading.


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