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PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:03 am 
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The chart uses the tropical zodiac because it identifies the first point of Aries with the spring equinox. Sidereally, the first point of Aries is not reached until April. My view is that tropical astrology could have a scientific basis, but sidereal astrology could not. It is conceivable that permanent terrestrial rhythms marked by the equinoxes and solstices are embedded in all DNA on our planet. There is no conceivable similar mechanism to translate sidereal markers to patterns in life.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 6:37 am 
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If anyone'd be interested, I could change settings on Editgrid so that a few of us could collaborate on this thing and save a lot of time searching in our respective areas of interest...

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 1:15 pm 
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yeah, i'm in the middle of a move but would be interested in participation with the grid sooner than later. thanks


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 1:46 pm 
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Some more evidence in Joshua 4:

Quote:
1 When the whole nation had finished crossing the Jordan, the LORD said to Joshua,

2 "Choose twelve men from among the people, one from each tribe,

3 and tell them to take up twelve stones from the middle of the Jordan from right where the priests stood and to carry them over with you and put them down at the place where you stay tonight."

4 So Joshua called together the twelve men he had appointed from the Israelites, one from each tribe,

5 and said to them, "Go over before the ark of the LORD your God into the middle of the Jordan. Each of you is to take up a stone on his shoulder, according to the number of the tribes of the Israelites,

6 to serve as a sign among you. In the future, when your children ask you, 'What do these stones mean?'

7 tell them that the flow of the Jordan was cut off before the ark of the covenant of the LORD. When it crossed the Jordan, the waters of the Jordan were cut off. These stones are to be a memorial to the people of Israel forever."

8 So the Israelites did as Joshua commanded them. They took twelve stones from the middle of the Jordan, according to the number of the tribes of the Israelites, as the LORD had told Joshua; and they carried them over with them to their camp, where they put them down.

9 Joshua set up the twelve stones that had been [a] in the middle of the Jordan at the spot where the priests who carried the ark of the covenant had stood. And they are there to this day.

10 Now the priests who carried the ark remained standing in the middle of the Jordan until everything the LORD had commanded Joshua was done by the people, just as Moses had directed Joshua. The people hurried over,

11 and as soon as all of them had crossed, the ark of the LORD and the priests came to the other side while the people watched.

12 The men of Reuben, Gad and the half-tribe of Manasseh crossed over, armed, in front of the Israelites, as Moses had directed them.

13 About forty thousand armed for battle crossed over before the LORD to the plains of Jericho for war.

14 That day the LORD exalted Joshua in the sight of all Israel; and they revered him all the days of his life, just as they had revered Moses.

15 Then the LORD said to Joshua,

16 "Command the priests carrying the ark of the Testimony to come up out of the Jordan."

17 So Joshua commanded the priests, "Come up out of the Jordan."

18 And the priests came up out of the river carrying the ark of the covenant of the LORD. No sooner had they set their feet on the dry ground than the waters of the Jordan returned to their place and ran at flood stage as before.

19 On the tenth day of the first month the people went up from the Jordan and camped at Gilgal on the eastern border of Jericho.

20 And Joshua set up at Gilgal the twelve stones they had taken out of the Jordan.

21 He said to the Israelites, "In the future when your descendants ask their fathers, 'What do these stones mean?'

22 tell them, 'Israel crossed the Jordan on dry ground.'

23 For the LORD your God dried up the Jordan before you until you had crossed over. The LORD your God did to the Jordan just what he had done to the Red Sea [b] when he dried it up before us until we had crossed over.

24 He did this so that all the peoples of the earth might know that the hand of the LORD is powerful and so that you might always fear the LORD your God."
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Joshua+4&version=NIV


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 5:08 pm 
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Mr Bridger, thank you for posting this chapter from Joshua 4 about the Jordan River and the twelve stones of the twelve tribes of Israel.

Perhaps it is just me, but I read such texts with an eye to the astro-theological content, which in this case leaps out strongly.

As Acharya has pointed out, the River Jordan corresponds to the constellation Eridanus the river, a long meandering line of stars extending from Orion on the celestial equator south towards Argo. The etymology of this Jordan-Eridanus connection appears compelling. References in Joshua 4 to Jordan should therefore be read as meaning Eridanus. Similarly, references to the Ark of the Covenant are about the constellation Argo, and the twelve stones are the twelve signs of the zodiac.

Back in the Golden Age, ten thousand years ago, Orion was about 40 degrees south of the celestial equator, and Argo, which is also the barque of Osiris and Noah's Ark, was close to the south pole. These constellations have become steadily more visible to northerly observers since then, but are still largely invisible from Europe.

Joshua's statement 'the stones are there to this day' makes complete sense with an astronomical reference. The stars of the zodiac have barely changed in their relative positions to each other, with their main long term apparent movement caused by the precession of earth's equinox. There are similar statements in the Pentateuch which are anachronistic, ie the books claim to be written by Moses but contain 'to this day' statements that imply they are written long after the time of Moses. Thomas Paine pointed this out.

One theme in this material that constrains interpretation is the deep unacknowledged Eurocentric racism of traditional interpretation. For me, living in Australia, I have grown up looking at the stars with the Southern Cross high in the sky, and northern stars such as Cassiopea and the Bears never visible. Argo is a main constellation here, but it is barely visible from Europe. If you look at the Dendera Zodiac you will see Argo next to Scorpio, shown in the centre of the map as the barque of Osiris. I think European researchers have neglected Argo simply because they cannot see it. We see this in the claim that Orion was the main constellation of Osiris, despite evidence that the star most associated by the Egyptians with Osiris was Canopus, the equal of Sirius.

From Israel, Egypt and Babylon, where these Biblical star stories originate, the shape of the heavens was the nightly TV which formed their cosmology, just as television forms the cosmology of mass opinion today. The Greeks spoke to the Egyptians, but barely found out anything before the Romans and Christians destroyed Egyptian oral heritage and condemned Egyptian culture as barbaric. References to Eridanus and Argo in Egyptian-Babylonian myth have been neglected by interpreters who are unfamiliar with the southerly stars.

We can see the European garbling of Egyptian cosmology in the myth of the loss of the prow ornament (Canopus) in the story of the Argonautica by Apollonius. This story seems to indicate that as seafarers went north from Egypt to Greece, Canopus, formerly the south pole star and prow star of Argo, dropped below the southern horizon and became invisible.

My opinion is that Eurocentrism has solidified into a deeply racist belief that Europe is the centre of the universe and that perspectives from other parts of the globe are not even real. So, when we come to a text like Joshua 4, those who are schooled in the white imperial framework will naturally scoff at the suggestion that Jordan is Eridanus, but this is partly because they can barely see Eridanus (and not just because of smog and light pollution). As for the central equation between the Ark of the Covenant and the constellation Argo, the northerners have totally ripped it apart because they cannot see it. Argo has been split into four constellations, and the obvious Ark of Osiris, which also contains the manger of Christ, was totally reversed in the European imagination of the age of conquest to form the poop deck of a modern imperial warship.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 10:38 am 
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Here's a Recreation of the Kohenim Breastplate

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoshen#The_Jewels

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2013 Astrotheology Calendar
The Mythicist Position
Christ in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 10:58 am 
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following the links of Freethinkaluva22 I see that the Urim and Thummim was placed within the breastplate and according to wiki managed to give back answers to the questioner:

According to classical rabbinical literature, in order for the Urim and Thummim to give an answer, it was first necessary for the individual to stand facing the fully dressed high priest, and vocalise the question briefly and in a simple way, though it wasn't necessary for it to be loud enough for anyone else to hear it[2]. The Talmudic rabbis argued that Urim and Thummim were words written on the sacred breastplate[6]; according to someone[citation needed], the breastplate had to be activated by taking a parchment with the Tetragrammaton inscribed upon it, and inserting the parchment into a slot in the breastplate[citation needed]. Most of the Talmudic rabbis, and Josephus, following the belief that Urim meant lights, argued that divination by Urim and Thummim involved questions being answered by great rays of light shining out of certain jewels on the breastplate; each jewel was taken to represent different letters, and the sequence of lighting thus would spell out an answer (though there were 22 letters in the Hebrew alphabet, and only 12 jewels on the breastplate)[7][8][9]; two Talmudic rabbis, however, argued that the jewels themselves moved in a way that made them stand out from the rest, or even moved themselves into groups to form words[10].


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 1:17 am 
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in the bible, danial 2 i believe, danial interprets king Nebuchadnezzar dream where if i have this right, some say could be align kingdoms with something like this:

gold=babylonians
silver=Persians
bronze=greeks
iron=romans

in this youtube video 'The Great Year HQ" 1 thru 5 it says that the great year is a cycle and that there are also these same 4 metals.

we know that the time line is way out of wack with the great year but is there a connection?

http://www.teachinghearts.com/dre17hdan02.html


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 2:49 am 
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Zekeman, You are right that Nebuchadnezzar's dream of gold, silver, bronze and iron derives from Vedic sources. Hesiod has the same theory of the Ages. It is ironic that technological advance, to iron, correlates with cultural decline.

The correlation between the Vedic Yuga, Biblical cosmology and the Great Year of precession of the equinox is extremely strong. Yukteswar in The Holy Science argued the Yuga period, the cycle from the Golden Age of awareness of God to the Iron Age of Ignorance of God, is 24,000 years. This is very close to the Great Year cycle of ~25765 years.

As a permanent astronomical fact, the Golden Age occurs when the March equinox point is on the north side of the Milky Way and the Iron Age is when the March equinox point is south of the Milky Way.

My view, per Yukteswar, is that the old idea of the Day of Brahma as 4.32 billion years is a corruption of an original source which saw this period as 4.32 thousand years, ie two zodiacal ages. There are 21600 seconds in six hours. Considering ten seconds as a year, this gives 12 hours, the average daylight period, as 4320 years (One Day of Brahma), and three days as a Great Year.

I wrote a paper which provides a diagram showing the overlay of the Yuga and the Great Year.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 1:08 pm 
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Thanks again Mr. Tulip, I read your paper with great pleasure. I'm hoping that perhaps you can steer me in the direction of study as to whether this cycle repeats itself and however weird this may sound, Jesus is re-crucified each Iron age. I know that the bible says that He said "It is done", but is it done for this great year only or for all great years?

I am always weighing in on the bible and will be all my life and I have learned so much from this forum and I so much appreciate all comments. I have now learned from here that there is a wonderful connection between the bible, egyptian and Vedic knowledge and culture. The astrotheology presented here has opened my vision so much and it's so great to have a place to ask these questions.

I was raised Christian so I apologize that I seem to demand answers in reference to the bible, so please excuse me.

Your paper describes the heart beat of the solar system, and the tree of life. When the bible says that the Garden of Eden was taken away from Adam and Eve and flaming swords guarded against future entrance, I want to understand that connection to the tree of life and the great year some more. Thanks

P.S.
I love your song with Jupiter on sax, Saturn on Trombone, and Neptune on flute!

http://www.purevolume.com/RobertTulip


Thanks


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 5:51 pm 
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One thing that Acharya outlines is that the early Christian apologists were quick to claim that the Christian religion was ancient, but only recently called "Christianity". This is covered in CiE for example. It means that the ancient astrotheological worship had been around since antiquity and was recently being branded as Christianity when all is said and done. One could ask whether or not a long running tradition has taken place between many Great Year cycles. There may have been something like this going on the last time around during the previous Iron Age / kali Yuga / Aries-Pisces cusp which passed down in some form through the mysteries only to be revived again during the beginning of the current Great Year. John Anthony West speculates as to whether the Sphinx dates to the last age of Leo or an entire precessional cycle earlier in the previous age of Leo. It's all speculation at best, but worth considering.

But knowing about precession didn't have to originate an entire cycle or more ago. Just simply understanding that 1 degree is moved every 72 years renders the Great Year as the natural result of the movement, at which point the yearly zodiac can be viewed in reverse order and speculations about the distant past and future can be made via the astrological symbolism and themes associated with the twelve signs, such as ages themed with belief (Pisces) followed by ages themed with knowledge (Aquarius) and ages themed around falling and rising human awarness. They may have come up on the vernal age of Aries, realized that since Aries starts the processional zodiac it closes the precessional zodiac (first and last), and then designed the religion around the knowledge of precession that may have been known from about the age of Taurus, or possibly earlier. In this way Christianity was presented as the fulfillment of the Great Year cycle and claimed to be the true religion that had always been in practice in different forms until eventually being called Christianity. The true religion ancient in days is obviously the astrotheological religion. So it would make sense for Christians to want to better understand astrotheology as Robert has accomplished. He sees it as the spiritual teaching, and it is. But it's difficult to understand because it's completely foreign to orthodox thinking. It requires re-thinking just about everything. But it also opens up the dialogue of the bible as well and clearly spells out some of the references. The four lower world ages stand out. The 12 signs stand out in all of their personified forms. The running theme of falling and then eventually rising up again - which reflects Greek and Vedic thought - stands out. The 12 foundational jewels of Revelation stand out prominently.

The bible is clearly astrotheological and when you see the extent of it there's really no turning back to not being able to see it. It's all over the place. We were recently looking at how the book of John grains into the book of acts as a running theme on the ages changing from Aries, to Pisces and the revolution in religious symbolism that was taking place between the old Aries based religions like Mithraism and Judaism, and the new mystical Fish symbolism of the Piscean age that became known as Christianity and made an exoteric presentation of the mysteries. If there was an astrotheological religious practice going on during the former age of Pisces, well then it was likely symbolized by fish as well, perhaps a savior personifying the age similar to what we have this time around. The idea of a repitition of the fish and fisherman symbolism this time around, not a first time occurance as thought, is interesting to consider for sure. Sort of like Neo finally realizing that the matrix scenario had already happened multiple times in the past. The age of Pisces has indeed gone by many times previously. It's just a question of when did human beings actually realize that much about the passage of time from using the vernal equinox sunrise in their spiritual practice and noticing the precession of the equinoxes.

The context of the cross imagery is of the last year of the age of Aries - the last complete Great Year cycle - and the beginning of the age of Pisces and the new Great Year cycle. Both winter solstice and vernal equinox symbolism is combined, because the sun's new year starts after the winter solstice and organic life's new year starts after the vernal equinox. So "It is done" specifically refers to the former age and the former Great Year. Then, continuing on after the conclusion of the former Great Year cycle when the sun stopped rising in Aries and began rising in Pisces, the bible runs on with the new Great Year cycle just beginning and then alludes to the second age to come in the future, the age of Aquarius. So the verse does not suggest that all of the Great Year cycles of the earth are now done, rather one Great year cycle is finished and another is beginning with the first two signs of the ascending Yugas.

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The Jesus Mythicist Creed:
The "Jesus Christ" of the New Testament is a fictional composite of characters, real and mythical. A composite of multiple "people" is no one.

The celestial Origins of Religious Belief
ZG Part 1
Jesus: Hebrew Human or Mythical Messiah?


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 6:05 pm 
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Great, appreciate that Tat Tvam Asi, and yes I've actually had a little happiness sharing with some Christians and it certainly has been eye opening for me and I hope them.

Someone might be interested to see my pictures of the Solar System Orbit paths produced by my solarnet2 program which uses a another program called swetest that calculates the positions of planets based on an input date. Note that the page intro will explain some flaws in the program. Also note that the solarnet2 program displays the planet positions for each day as it runs and therefore animates the Solar System.

http://www.hyteware.com/solarnet_pictures/index.html


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 3:16 pm 
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zekeman wrote:
Thanks again Mr. Tulip, I read your paper with great pleasure. I'm hoping that perhaps you can steer me in the direction of study as to whether this cycle repeats itself and however weird this may sound, Jesus is re-crucified each Iron age. I know that the bible says that He said "It is done", but is it done for this great year only or for all great years? I am always weighing in on the bible and will be all my life and I have learned so much from this forum and I so much appreciate all comments. I have now learned from here that there is a wonderful connection between the bible, egyptian and Vedic knowledge and culture. The astrotheology presented here has opened my vision so much and it's so great to have a place to ask these questions. I was raised Christian so I apologize that I seem to demand answers in reference to the bible, so please excuse me. Your paper describes the heart beat of the solar system, and the tree of life. When the bible says that the Garden of Eden was taken away from Adam and Eve and flaming swords guarded against future entrance, I want to understand that connection to the tree of life and the great year some more. Thanks P.S. I love your song with Jupiter on sax, Saturn on Trombone, and Neptune on flute! http://www.purevolume.com/RobertTulip Thanks

Hello Zekeman, I'm glad you liked my music of the spheres. It is in fact a purely scientific rendering of the cosmic unit (the cubit) of the Great Year as the heart beat of the solar system and as described in Rev 21:17. The instruments are actually Jupiter on cello, Saturn on french horn and Neptune on tubular bells. The piece is designed to describe the smallest unit of the whole solar system (179 years) that provides a permanent replicating unit. I have discussed this at some length at bautforum. Sheet music for it is at http://img33.imageshack.us/i/jsnpage1.jpg/ and http://img33.imageshack.us/i/jsnpage2.jpg/ I will put this on my own website.

Your suggestion that Jesus is re-crucified each Iron Age matches the Vedic concept of the Yuga, and provides a natural explanation of the old mystery from Nietzsche of the eternal return of the same. In fact there have been about 175,000 Great Years since the dawn of life, with the equinox points wobbling from one side of the Milky Way to the other in a permanent natural cycle. My view is that the Great Year is deeply embedded within the DNA of all life on earth, producing large slow karmic cycles of the Golden Age and the Iron Age. Therefore it makes sense to imagine that at the depth of the previous Iron Age, an avatar of the Golden Age appeared to mark the nadir and point the path back to the zenith, just like Jesus Christ. However, the archaeological record of the previous Yuga cycle is so sketchy that this whole idea needs to be considered with some caution.

On your question of the flaming swords, my diagram of the Milky Way as the River of Life suggests that Revelation 22 explains the movement of the equinox across the Milky Way as the Fall. In fact the Milky Way, as the River of Life, also corresponds to the Biblical flaming swords at the gate of Eden that block humanity from knowledge of God. The earth is now just past half way through the bottom cycle of 12,882 years of ignorance, as indicated in the Vedic Yuga theory of the 24,000 year cycle, and is rising towards the next Golden Age. The Millennium is the first half of the Age of Aquarius. The Millennium is the final sabbath day of the seven days of creation/tribulation, with each day as a thousand years (or astronomically 1074 years). This is a new scientific paradigm reconciling the Bible with astronomy and mythology.

Acharya has suggested that the Great Year and the Bible is a topic in need of research. This has been my main interest for some years, but it is universally rejected and despised as a topic by science, religion and astrology, due to their mutual three-way hostility. Main reference books such as The Great Year by Campion are blissfully unaware of this entire area of research, and when I wrote to Campion about it I received just an insult as a reply. Similarly, Michel's book, The City of Revelation, is the only documented reference I am aware of to the match between the Great Year and the foundation stones of the holy city, but this book is so mystical that it is inaccessible to the general reader. Hamlet's Mill is a fragmentary groping towards the jigsaw puzzle of the Great Year, but again fails to engage the Bible. Yukteswar's The Holy Science suffers from the defect (continued by Cruttenden) of an unscientific approach to the astronomy of the Great Year. So it is timely to bring all this together.

Robert Tulip


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 9:18 am 
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Mr. Tulip,
Now that I understand the great year cycle and thousands of them, I praise God and ask myself if it means that mankind is slowly shifting up the ladder, slowly gaining more love, knowledge and understanding and is this meaning. However, something leads me to dismissing this concept. I'm more inclined to think that it is all finished, A to Z. God has finished His work and that Jesus Himself often referred to a fate that implies that it is in fact finished. Is it possible that fate, astrology and therefore astrology theology go in hand, and if Jesus spoke in terms of fate does it mean that His ties to ancient Egypt solidify the bible stories of Him or do they weaken them?

Nature, at its best, with the survival of the fittest, seems to be a balanced and closed system, and if man destroyed the Earth would not the Heavens repopulate it.

In the bible, God speaks of Empires and Kings that come and go and turn into dust. Verse 15 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... ersion=KJV


Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane prayed that this cup might pass from Him. The Greek word for cup, I believe is POTERION which has this meaning according to this site:
http://www.searchgodsword.org/lex/grk/v ... umber=4221
1. a cup, a drinking vessel
2. metaph. one's lot or experience, whether joyous or adverse, divine appointments, whether favorable or unfavorable, are likened to a cup which God presents one to drink: so of prosperity and adversity


Was He asking God to remove the ordeal or to let fate pass, be on with it?

In Luke 13
31The same day there came certain of the Pharisees, saying unto him, Get thee out, and depart hence: for Herod will kill thee.
Paraphrased, Jesus then said: go tell that fox that I have fate to do.

Some say that Jesus calling Harod a fox was a put-down, however, with the Egyptian learning that He had, could it have been a reference to the Egyptian god Anubis who had the body of a man but the head of a Jackal and represented the God of the Dead.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anubis

According to this site about Ancient Egyptian concept of fate, the word for fate was sometimes written with the word for death. Preordination, Ordaining, or Fixing is fate. http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/fate.htm

John 18:
37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered; Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

As the Sun sets, exalted in Aries, the full moon, Mother, rises in Virgo, the virgin, with Christ on the cross, its setting embellished Christ with His blood soaked white robe, red and white, the color of Aries. An inscription on the cross over Him was written in Greek, Latin, and Hebrew and said ‘This is the King of the Jews’. With Jupiter the ruler of languages and of Royalty, His fall from royalty was printed. Royal Jupiter was fallen here on Earth, given over to manmade Roman authority of Capricorn (Jupiter falls in Capricorn). Venus is exalted in Taurus giving Him presence, holding the chariots of the gods in one hand and the babes in the other. It’s the first Earth sign, with the trembling Earth at His command. Uranus in Greek Mythology is father sky, falling in Cancer representing His mother and Jesus giving her His last earthly possession to a disciple. Uranus in Cancer also makes Him a caring healer. Jesus on the cross for the love of the mankind with the power of Mars exalted in the representation of the Power of Scorpio for life, death, and rebirth. The polarity of the King of the Universe at the mercy of mankind was the greatest dualism to ever grace heaven and earth. From the position and placements of the stars and planets, we can undeniable see that heaven and Earth were created for this moment. Now we can say that we know why Paul said “Have they not Heard”?


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 11:43 am 
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Zekeman wrote:
However, something leads me to dismissing this concept. I'm more inclined to think that it is all finished, A to Z. God has finished His work and that Jesus Himself often referred to a fate that implies that it is in fact finished.

I thought that I made this clear earlier, but I guess not judging from the above. What exactly do you propose is "all finished"?

The Great Year cycle is clearly not "finished", otherwise time would not have progressed into the age of Pisces which is the beginning of the new cycle. The bible also refers to the "age to come" which is Aquarius and it's the second age of the new Great Year cycle. So the Great Year cycles move on through time in the dialogue rather than stopping abruptly when the age of Aries ended concluding the last full Great Year cycle.

Even more importantly the world is made anew after the end of the age of Pisces (the very end of the age) and the New Jerusalem scenario brings in graphic imagery of the Great Year and likewise a continued existence of people on the earth living in the New Jerusalem. Nothing is really 'over' in this scenario aside from the former Great Year cycle marked by the crucifixion scene, for one, and the end of the four darkest world ages which end with the age of Aquarius in the future. Everything is set up to move beyond any one of these 'ends' which "finish" some particular cycle. "It is finished", in the astrotheological dialogue, clearly points to the age of Aries ending at the scene of the crucifixion which concludes one full Great Year cycle, not all of them, other wise there would be no further story in the NT beyond the crucifixion scene...

_________________
The Jesus Mythicist Creed:
The "Jesus Christ" of the New Testament is a fictional composite of characters, real and mythical. A composite of multiple "people" is no one.

The celestial Origins of Religious Belief
ZG Part 1
Jesus: Hebrew Human or Mythical Messiah?


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