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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:21 pm 
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The Jews may have had stories about Jesus, but that didn't mean they thought he really existed. Thing is, the story as I understand it, says he was born of a woman who was of ill-repute in their version. This does not mean they took it literally though. However, IF the idea of Jesus was taken from that and then historicized, I can see them saying, "Your story of Jesus is just rediculous." or something to that effect.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 10:41 pm 
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...And just in case anyone wants read a bunch of literature on this issue, here's a link to this websites list of works that pertain to the Talmud:

http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=Talmud ... eknown.com

November, I'm not sure I understand why you were so enthuiastic about jumping all over Acharya's case in this thread.

Are you grasping at straws trying to find some sort of evidence for an historical Jesus or what?

It sure comes across that way.

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The Jesus Mythicist Creed:
The "Jesus Christ" of the New Testament is a fictional composite of characters, real and mythical. A composite of multiple "people" is no one.

The celestial Origins of Religious Belief
ZG Part 1
Jesus: Hebrew Human or Mythical Messiah?


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 Post subject: Jesus in the Talmud.
PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 2:13 am 
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Abodah Zarah! Be sure of which copy you have, if it is any other than Hebrew and printed after 1840 in English. There are several references to a man called Jesus that they renamed ?????? ( The name of the man we will not mention ). I can't begin to tell you how wrong those that think he did not exist really are. The strongest argument is that many other cultures and religions had a man like Jesus and therefore the reality is a nonsense as supported by the non-ethereal presence of the others. I assure you that the writers of the Talmud saw this man more than a material threat to their power they saw in him the incarnation of the one all the other cultures and theirs said would come. The Alpha and the Omega have no other representation other than life starts and finishes and that G-d is theirs and theirs alone. The Talmud is what Jews are about where as the Torahs are given to man in hope that he will save those from the Talmud. Please note that Christianity in the nude is very different to the usurper Cathoholics and was the first religion given to all men even prior to the formation of the Jews as it was necessarily the Christian Judeans that created the Jew an aboration of early Babylonian Talmudic pursuit. Israel = Is (Throne) Ra(Egyptian Deity) El(Ras' Right Hand) = ISRAEL. Did Jesus exist? I say most definitely. Did Jesus say he was the son of G-d? No, it was the priests that made that claim in order to piss off Pontius. That is why Pontius put I.N.R.I on the cross. To chastize the priests as he thought Jesus was not worth the bother. I.N.R.I= Jesus of Nazareth Leader of the Judeans. In other words Not You Priest as I AM and who are you to suggest that I am not for to do so would suggest that you are. This is why the Romans and the to become Christians were given the name Minith. The lowest of the low - to be abhored- No crime against them is disallowed. If you have a real copy of the Talmud and I doubt it you will see referenc to Jesus real father and what was done to his blood after he escaped. I would not dare print it for I know the outcome.

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 Post subject: Re: Jesus in the Talmud.
PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 9:33 am 
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ogmios wrote:
If you have a real copy of the Talmud and I doubt it you will see referenc to Jesus real father and what was done to his blood after he escaped. I would not dare print it for I know the outcome.


Ah! You are talking about the Roman soldier who was said to be the father of that Jesus. Yes, I have heard of that story too. I think what happened there was that it fit the statement, "If therever was a man named Jesus, he is too buried in myth to find." Even IF that were the same Jesus, he's been buried in myth. It's like Paul Bunyan and the Blue Ox.

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Nonviolence is the greatest force at the disposal of mankind. It is mightier than the mightiest weapon of destruction devised by the ingenuity of man. ~ Gandhi

Non-violence leads to the highest ethics, which is the goal of all evolution. Until we stop harming all other living beings, we are still savages. ~ Thomas A. Edison


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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 10:29 am 
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Israel = "Isis" "Ra" "El"

Here's a video clip to consider on the issue:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... &plindex=6

You have to dig a little deeper to understand the origins of Judaism my friend - but you were getting pretty close.

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The Jesus Mythicist Creed:
The "Jesus Christ" of the New Testament is a fictional composite of characters, real and mythical. A composite of multiple "people" is no one.

The celestial Origins of Religious Belief
ZG Part 1
Jesus: Hebrew Human or Mythical Messiah?


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 Post subject: Who said he was a Roman
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 1:39 am 
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The old myth that Jesus dad was a Roman is close. He was a Tutonic slave warrior for the Essene. Everybody knew the Brothers and Sisters in white. The Hapiru called them "The School of Prophets"; and, to the Egyptians, they were "The Healers, The Doctors". They had property in nearly all of the big cities; and, in Jerusalem, there was even a door that bore their name: the door of the Essenes. Despite some fear and joking, due to the rejection of that which one does not know. The people as a whole felt respect and esteem for the Essenes because of their honesty, their pacifism, their goodness, their discretion, and their talent as healers, devoted to the poorest as well as to the richest.
It cultivated many points of contact with the people, notably through places of lodging for the pilgrims from every horizon, through helpful actions in difficult periods, and especially through the healing of illnesses. These places of primary teaching and of healing were located in precise areas where people could go freely.

As their warrior guard he was given much station by the local peoples and was reverred by the Romans for they originally had great appreciation for the Essene and gave them great freedoms and liberties. In return the Romans were given their medical expertise which in the day and even by todays standards was extremely compotent. As a young boy of about seven he was on a trading mission that was attacked by one of the Haripu tribes the Ephraim, he was taken back to Hebron where in turn an Essene diplomat named Zorata saw the strange red headed youth. Zorata purchased the boy from the tribe of Ephraim and took him back to the territories of Philadelphia where he was shown their way and bred accordingly. At the age of fifteen he accompanied his Essene master to the Roman settlement of Joppa where he was seen by Hyrcanus, the then residing leader. When he saw the young boy he said “ It is as if he has the face of a Cherub/Angel” incidentally it was this moment in time when the Romans started to call white fair skinned peoples Angels this in turn became known as English over time. Upon consulting with the Essenes he struck a deal that the boy was to be trained as a Roman warrior for a period of seven years and used for a further four in the wars with the Phoenicians then returned to the Essenes. As motion took its’ course the young boy became known to all as Ogmios, Celt/Esene/Roman for one of Herculean strength and seeker of knowledge. In his left hand was his sword or club, our mythology suggests he liked to use the club as his preferred administration of exactdness and the book of knowledge was given to him in his right hand. To only be shown to himself when he was an old man.
After many hard years of servitude to the Romans he was returned to his Essene master Zorata who continued with his indoctrination to the path to enlightenment. It was during this indoctrination that Ogmios broke ground with his masters and started his own journey for enlightenment. He saw many differences in that which he felt was real and that which was not but was shown to be. There he told them that “LIFE which I have taken for you and your Roman cohorts, LIFE that was taken from me by those that are you. For today LIFE moves in my body as it does yours, but today I tell you there is no God! there is only LIFE, that which I know so well but do not know what it is. It is your Gods that have me kill through Shataanas way. Enlightenment is born to all men, you are pretenders and doers of Shataana. There he left and was to make his way back to his childhood village. On the second day he was attacked by a group of fifteen and there he did slay them, removing from each one their left hand and did return the hands to Zorata and his Pharisaic sect. Upon word of this the Romans sought the one they had trained and dispatched Tillius leader of a small determined band of mercenaries to bring Ogmios back to them. They caught him and removed one eye one ear and all of his tongue. There he was put on public display and there he mett Mary, who soothed his pain with water and bread. It was here that he first saw his destiny – Here he did make love with Mary and did kiss her on the mouth and lips, here he saw felt and acknowledged all that was LIFE. Their unity would not be tolerated by the San Hedrin of which Joseph of Arimathea friend of Pontius Pilate was leader. Once it was known Mary was pregnant Joseph rushed her to ????? where it was declared by Joseph leader of the Pharisees that it was immaculate conception. This was done as she was his brothers daughter and stoning to death was the only alternative so in order to save her life they basically lied. When the young Jesus was born he was a Nazarene and from an early age his father Ogmios was there to inform him of the evils of the Pharisees. This was done simply by telling Jesus, his past and how they through their pursuits must acknowledge LIFE deny God and inform the rest of the evil to come if they were left to their own devices. Although Ogmios could no longer talk he used a sophisticated way of gesture to communicate with his son and others. His son took this way of communication with him as he spoke. It is for this reason that Jesus had greater understanding and ways of articulation than others, it was this ability that was most hated by the Pharisees for it gave him great power unto the masses. In the end it was Jesus unique way of communicating that was his undoing. When they decided to have him killed Ogmios urged his son to leave with him, but like father like son. He had a truth to tell, to him it was as important as LIFE itself. Well we all know the end, right? Jesus could write and he did write, lots. Ogmios left with some of his sons followers but yearned for his home land and after many years travel he came to Koflach all to much like what he knew. He was now 59 years old. He had lived a good LIFE. He thought he had all of his past and now the writings of his son.

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PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 8:21 am 
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Here's a Television series about Tom Harpur's book "The Pagan Christ". The name of the show was "Jesus Never Existed" and the main point is that Acharya and many of the scholars who are researching the story of Jesus have found that there's no solid evidence that he was ever a historical personal in the first place - Essene or otherwise. Even though people speak about all of this evidence, the truth is that there actually isn't. Jesus has all of the making of a mythological heroic figure from start to finish. Check out this series of videos:

Part 2

Part 3

Part 4

Part 5

Part 6

Part 7

Part 8

_________________
The Jesus Mythicist Creed:
The "Jesus Christ" of the New Testament is a fictional composite of characters, real and mythical. A composite of multiple "people" is no one.

The celestial Origins of Religious Belief
ZG Part 1
Jesus: Hebrew Human or Mythical Messiah?


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 Post subject: Re: Jesus in the Talmud
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 2:05 pm 
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The Jesus the Jews Never Knew by Frank Zindler does a good job of debunking the so-called evidence for Jesus in the Talmud.

Here's a review by Dr. Robert Price.

Here's a review by Earl Doherty.

Just for reference Wikipedia: Jesus in the Talmud

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 Post subject: Re: Jesus in the Talmud
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 6:20 pm 
Does anyone know of the headless Ethiopians that Price says Augustine may reference? They sound alot like the Ethiopian Blemmyas which the Romans say had no heads and a face on thier chest. It sounds like when they fought the Romans they had shoulder pads that would also hide their heads?


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 Post subject: Re: Jesus in the Talmud
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 6:29 pm 
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I about fell out of my chair laughing when I hit the link to Frank's book. :lol:

The cover images are hilarious and straight to the point!!!

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The Jesus Mythicist Creed:
The "Jesus Christ" of the New Testament is a fictional composite of characters, real and mythical. A composite of multiple "people" is no one.

The celestial Origins of Religious Belief
ZG Part 1
Jesus: Hebrew Human or Mythical Messiah?


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 Post subject: Re: Jesus in the Talmud
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:41 am 
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DanielHopkins wrote:
Does anyone know of the headless Ethiopians that Price says Augustine may reference? They sound alot like the Ethiopian Blemmyas which the Romans say had no heads and a face on thier chest. It sounds like when they fought the Romans they had shoulder pads that would also hide their heads?


LOL, interesting. The description kind of reminds me of the Goons on Popeye cartoons. I wonder if there is some possible influence there.

Image


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 2:26 pm 
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November wrote:
Mr Bridger wrote:
Considering how Judaism features a lot of esoteric astronomical material, it would appear that the latter group has a better understanding of matters, as the coming of the Messiah would have more to do with another zodiacal age rather than a physical being turning up.


It seems like the Jews didn't like the first "Messiah":

The Accusation

Insults Against Blessed Mary, Sanhedrin 106a . Says Jesus' mother was a whore: "She who was the descendant of princes and governors played the harlot with carpenters." Also in footnote #2 to Shabbath 104b it is stated that in the "uncensored" text of the Talmud it is written that Jesus mother, "Miriam the hairdresser," had sex with many men.

"Jesus was a bastard born of adultery." (Yebamoth 49b, p.324).
"Mary was a whore: Jesus (Balaam) was an evil man." (Sanhedrin 106a &b, p.725).

"Jesus was a magician and a fool. Mary was an adulteress". (Shabbath 104b, p.504).


The Accusation
Gittin 57a. Says Jesus is in hell, being boiled in "hot excrement."

http://www.angelfire.com/mt/talmud/jesus.html

The Jesus Narrative In The Talmud
http://www.angelfire.com/mt/talmud/jesusnarr.html


My apology but did you read any of that link you posted? I would go back and read it again. The reference its making to a jesus here:

Quote:
Proof
Some historians claim that Ben Stada, also known as Ben Pandira, was Jesus. His mother's name was Miriam which is similar to Mary. Additionally, Miriam was called a women's hairdresser, "megadla nashaia" [for this translation, see R. Meir Halevi Abulafia, Yad Rama, Sanhedrin ad. loc.]. The phrase "Miriam megadla nashaia" sounds similar to Mary Magdalene, a well-known New Testament figure.


Ben Pandira

Quote:
Jesus ben Pandira. A wonder-worker during the reign of Alexander Jannaeus (106-79 BC), one of the most ruthless of the Maccabean kings. Imprudently, this Jesus launched into a career of end-time prophecy and agitation which upset the king. He met his own premature end-time by being hung on a tree – and on the eve of a Passover. Scholars have speculated this Jesus founded the Essene sect.


http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/surfeit.htm#balaam

Paul in 2 Corinthians 11,4 even makes mention of a rival magic man.

Quote:
Jesus ben Stada was a Judean agitator who gave the Romans a headache in the early years of the second century. He met his end in the town of Lydda (twenty five miles from Jerusalem) at the hands of a Roman crucifixion crew.


http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/surfeit.htm#balaam

So the jesus you are thinking that is the Bible jesus is not the jesus they are speaking of.


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