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 Post subject: The Gnostic Gospels
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 12:25 pm 
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Thoughts about the Gnostic Gospels?

Be sure to check into the Sophia Goddess worship topic. They apparently considered her very powerful.

There are many references to the Gnostic Gospels throughout the work of Acharya. Do a website search at Acharya's truthbeknown to find out more about the Gnostics - http://www.truthbeknown.com/search.html

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 1:39 pm 
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Some History of Gnosticism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Gnosticism

Quote:
The Nag Hammadi library:

The Nag Hammadi library (popularly known as The Gnostic Gospels) is a collection of early Christian Gnostic texts discovered near the town of Nag Hammâdi in 1945. That year, twelve leather-bound papyrus codices buried in a sealed jar were found by a local peasant named Mohammed Ali Samman.[1][2] The writings in these codices comprised fifty-two mostly Gnostic tractates (treatises), but they also include three works belonging to the Corpus Hermeticum and a partial translation / alteration of Plato's Republic. In his "Introduction" to The Nag Hammadi Library in English, James Robinson suggests that these codices may have belonged to a nearby Pachomian monastery, and were buried after Bishop Athanasius condemned the uncritical use of non-canonical books in his Festal Letter of 367 AD

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nag_Hammadi_library

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 10:09 pm 
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Gnosticism is kind of cool to a point. But, ultimately, it is nothing more than early esoteric Christianity, i.e. a Jewish version of Mithra, Dionysus, Osiris, the dying God-man etc.

What I find very suspicious about the Nag Hammadi Library is the almost Hollywood-scripting of the discovery including murder, fleeing from the police, much of papayrus being burned for a cook fire, blood revenge involving ripping someone's heart out ... and so forth.

The discovery of the Nag Hammadi Library is too ridiculous of a story to accept at face value. I believe the Gnostic Gospels are yet another hoax perpetrated by the "Chosen Ones" to keep the ruse of a Holy Land going strong.

Think about it.

When was Israel Formed? 1948

When were the Dead Sea Scrolls found? 1947 to 1960

When were the Nag Hammadi Gospels found? Dec. 1945 in nearby Egypt.

The end of WWII in Europe, & the cry for a Jewish Homeland was in early 1945, just months prior.

Coincidence that all these historically important events occurred smack dab at the beginning of the formation of Israel? I don't think so.

Could it be possible that both the DSS and the Gnostic Gospels are nothing more than elaborate hoaxes designed to elicit a religious-superiority complex with respect to Israel? Who sat on the DSS for half a century? Jews. Who ended up owning the Nag Hammadi Codices? Jews such as Carl Jung. What group has been associated for centuries with creating fraudulent works of art, literature, and countless other forgeries? Yes, you already know. I don't even have to say it.

Now with that said, there is some cool stuff in them, even if they are a hoax. I own a few books on the Gospel of Thomas. But they really don't say anything more than any book on Buddhism or Taoism would say.

Remember the reason why Christianity was formed. The Jews used it as a way of bringing the Roman Empire to its knees via pacifism & "turning the other cheek" propaganda. The Jews were so successful at spreading their myth that ultimately Constantine decided to use it as the new, unifying religion for the Roman Empire . Constantine fell right into the trap set by the Jews who had created Christianity a few centuries earlier. The Roman Empire became Christian & subsequently fell. Now, Jews run the world behind the scenes.

The fall of Rome nearly 2000 years ago and the New World Order of today are intimately related. And both intimately involve(d) the "Chosen Ones" and Palestine.

In my opinion, the Dead Sea Scrolls, the Gnostic Gospels, & Christianity in general are all elaborate Jewish hoaxes.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 9:25 am 
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Now that is a stretch if there ever was one.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 4:32 pm 
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Brenton wrote:
Now that is a stretch if there ever was one.


Perhaps. But I am 100% certain that 911 was an outside-inside job perpetrated by Mossad & traitors within our government.

I am also convinced that the WWII holocaust has been exorbatantly exaggerated for the benefit of the "Chosen Ones." The Federal Reserve was created by and is still operated by the "Chosen Ones." They control all media, politics, and finance in this country.

All of recent history has been rewritten by fraudsters. Therefore, since 911, I am very skeptical of any "evidence" of any historical significance if the source is a "Chosen" source.

The DSS date to maybe 500 A.D. max., certainly not older...probably much younger. And Nag Hammadi is just a joke. Have you read the history of the discovery? I can't take it seriously.

When I have time in a few weeks I'll try to give a more detailed answer w/alternate sources.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:29 pm 
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Most of the finds seem a little off. I should mention the "I killed the King of the House of David" find which is being held as proof for an historical King David, even though the inscription dates to well past the supposed time of King David.

What's interesting is that many modern Jews are actually showing that the nation of Israel was nothing more than a bunch of Canaanite serfs and slave who congregated around the hill country following the final collapse of the Egyptian run Canaanite City-State system:

Quote:
The Bibles Buried Secrets - PBS Documentary

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/bible/program.html
Quote:
The Bible is Myth?!

"In November 2008, PBS will air a TV special claiming that the biblical patriarch Abraham and his wife, Sarah, were not historical persons but were "myths." The documentary will also declare the fabulous Israelite Exodus to be mythical, rather than representing a miraculous "historical" event...."
http://tbknews.blogspot.com/2008/07/bible-is-myth.html

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Christ_Co ... sage/11847


The Jewish archaeologists in the above program are basically saying, "We're not all that the myths make us out to be, but we were here in this land in ancient times nonetheless".

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 Post subject: Re: The Gnostic Gospels
PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 3:34 am 
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I agree with most of the above points about Jewry. However, the ideas about the Jews faking the dead sea scrolls and the Nag Hammadi texts is more than a stretch. The Jews are clever, but I can't believe that they would go to that much trouble for no discernable gain. They get what they want without going to that much work.


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 Post subject: Re: The Gnostic Gospels
PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 9:41 am 
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Plato is said to first use the word Gnostic meaning knowledge. The Buddhists used the related word Janaka as 'one who KNOws' (Pali Jananaka) from Jana. It is possible that the Jains and Buddhists were called Nastika (Atheist, no 'asti' or soul) by the followers of the Mahabharata (Shanti parvan Ch. 11). These folks were called Nastika' because they denied any ego and refused to recite mantras but still went off to practice meditation in the woods (Jains&Buddhists). There is no evidence of anyone being called Nastika before Mahavira and Siddhartha. As this word is used in the Mahabharata it appears to reffer to Buddhists and Jains without naming them but playing off the title of Jina that they took? Just a good guess, who Knows?

I am only mentioning this because it seems that people investigate the Gnostic origins often fall into the trap of believing that east and west hardly met. The early church fathers tried to Christianize the meaning of the word gnostic because of early Christians who they deemed heretical were called Gnostics. This was the case with Basilides of Alexandria who scholars have shown was heavily influenced by Buddhist doctrine without naming the Bauddhas or Therapeutae as a source. Where have we seen this before?


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 Post subject: Re: The Gnostic Gospels
PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 12:03 pm 
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RightofRush wrote:
I agree with most of the above points about Jewry. However, the ideas about the Jews faking the dead sea scrolls and the Nag Hammadi texts is more than a stretch. The Jews are clever, but I can't believe that they would go to that much trouble for no discernable gain. They get what they want without going to that much work.

The old Elohim pantheon is a part of the Dead Sea Scrolls, so why would they have faked the pantheon which only serves to expose the polytheistic roots of Judaism?

The dead sea scrolls don't flatter the religious authorities at all. They expose the old polytheism and they don't predate the Babylonian captivity, so they don't prove a long standing monotheistic tradition nor a pre-Babylonian captivity era tradition. All it does is show a little bit older version of scripture that predates the Common Era and exposes a few dirty little secrets in the process.

So I'm not sure why the dead sea scrolls would have been invented by Israel because the scrolls seem to make the Israelites look rather foolish in the grand scheme of things. The Gnostic gospels tend to spell out the mystical origins of the Christ myth and so perhaps the Israelites would have a reason for bringing forward something like that, but even then it merely traces Jesus back to the OT hero Joshua who was solar based the entire time. It shows the solar allegory symbolism running right on through both the OT and NT. None of this really flatters Judaism from what I understand.

What they've done - from what I can see - is taken unflattering bits of info and paraded them around 'as if' this info is flattering in some way when it really isn't. It seems more a case of trying to role with the punches rather than inventing anything whole cloth.

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The Jesus Mythicist Creed:
The "Jesus Christ" of the New Testament is a fictional composite of characters, real and mythical. A composite of multiple "people" is no one.

The celestial Origins of Religious Belief
ZG Part 1
Jesus: Hebrew Human or Mythical Messiah?


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 Post subject: Re: The Gnostic Gospels
PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 3:02 pm 
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Good points, Tat. I've got some interesting data on the DSS in Christ Con and Suns of God. The Joshua cult inferences, for example, are quite striking.

You can search both my books at those links.

The scrolls have been examined by many individuals, including not only Jews but also Catholics and secularists. One would think someone would have noticed if they were of modern origin.

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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 10:01 pm 
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Jeff_Reeves wrote:
Brenton wrote:
Now that is a stretch if there ever was one.


Perhaps. But I am 100% certain that 911 was an outside-inside job perpetrated by Mossad & traitors within our government.
http://www.giwersworld.org/911/is-spies.phtml
Quote:
I am also convinced that the WWII holocaust has been exorbatantly exaggerated for the benefit of the "Chosen Ones." The Federal Reserve was created by and is still operated by the "Chosen Ones." They control all media, politics, and finance in this country.

All of recent history has been rewritten by fraudsters. Therefore, since 911, I am very skeptical of any "evidence" of any historical significance if the source is a "Chosen" source.

The DSS date to maybe 500 A.D. max., certainly not older...probably much younger. And Nag Hammadi is just a joke. Have you read the history of the discovery? I can't take it seriously.

When I have time in a few weeks I'll try to give a more detailed answer w/alternate sources.


The DSS have been carbon dated and they come from three distinct periods, early 1st c. BC, early 1st. c. AD and late 1st c. AD. There is no particular reason to question these dates nor any apparent benefit to a conspiracy in the matter.

The call for an Israel began in the late 19th c. with Herzl. In the middle of WWI both the Palestinians were promised their independence in return for help against the Ottomans (Lawrence of Arabia) and the Zionists were promised Palestine as a homeland -- the Balfour Declaration. By the early 20, lead by Jabotinisky the Zionists began the use of violence and terrorism against the Palestinians who were demanding their independent state from the Brits. (Seems while the Brits were lying to both they were dealing with the French on the Sykes-Picot agreement to split the middle east between themselves.)

In 1933 the World Jewish Organization declared boycott on Germany. In 1936 the World Zionist Organization signed the Ha'Avara, The Transfer, Agreement with Germany to get Jewish Germans to Palestine.

Talk about Nazi collaborators ... Jewish Germans in Israel who were part of that deal were shown with pictures of Hitler in their homes on PBS in the late 1990s -- go figure. They didn't belief that holocaust stuff either. You are in good Jewish company. Also Naturei Karta claims the holocaust thing is nonsense.

Take some advice, do not jump into this holocaust thing unless you are ready to spend your time in hell learning about it. I wish I had had that advice. http://www.giwersworld.org/holo /holo2 /holo3 if interested.

Back to the scrolls. By the time they were discovered jewish terrorism (see King David Hotel, Palestinian market bombings, the pricetag policy) was at its peak and the expulsion/murder of the Palstinians was well underway. There was no need for the DSS at that point.

Specifically regarding the DSS at least 90% of the published information about them is bullshit. These three facts should illustrate that. There is no evidence of any connection between the Essenes and Qumran. There is no evidence of any connection between the Essenes and the scrolls. Only some broken pottery in one of the structures at Qumran that sort of matches some of the pottery in which the scrolls were found connects the scrolls with Qumran. However dating the scrolls to three distinct periods suggests they were brought to Qumran where some jars were purchased to store them.

The study of the DSS was taken over by Christians funded by Rockefellar and the mythology created about them has been largely Christian and of no apparent benefit to the Zionists. Nag Hammadi is clearly Christian if you don't take sides in heresy issues so again no apparent benefit to the Zionists. Last I heard Jung was about the only prominent christian in the psychoanalysis con game -- talk your way to mental health.


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 Post subject: Re: The Gnostic Gospels
PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 2:55 pm 
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I have been intrigued by the link of Indian religious philosophy to Greek gnosticism to Christian gnosticism to the Cathars since reading Holy Blood, Holy Grail some years ago. Of all of the different versions of Christian thought, it seemed to me that the Cathars were the most creditable. As a life long agnostic, my interest was academic.
A year or two ago I began to give the implications of the DNA double helix some thought. A strand of DNA consists of phosphate groups linking deoxyribose molecules which in turn are linked to one of four amino bases: Adenine, thymine, guanine, and cytosine. The number of atoms in human DNA number a bit more than three billion. Both Crick and Watson opined that the odds were too great for this happen by chance. Dr. Crick estimate that odds against this were on the order of 10 to the 180th power.
The facts above should give any atheist pause. These facts have made me an advocate of intelligent design, and that the intuitive conclusions of thoughtful mystics over the previous 5+ millenia have a basis in reality. I have no idea how or when God did it, but I rather think that he did.


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 Post subject: Re: The Gnostic Gospels
PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 3:01 pm 
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As an addendum, does anyone have an idea how any sugar can occur without photosynthesis, and photosynthesis can occur without DNA?


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 Post subject: Re: The Gnostic Gospels
PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 9:25 pm 
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Wow! You get all of that out of the Gnostic Gospels?

RightofRush wrote:
A year or two ago I began to give the implications of the DNA double helix some thought. A strand of DNA consists of phosphate groups linking deoxyribose molecules which in turn are linked to one of four amino bases: Adenine, thymine, guanine, and cytosine. The number of atoms in human DNA number a bit more than three billion. Both Crick and Watson opined that the odds were too great for this happen by chance. Dr. Crick estimate that odds against this were on the order of 10 to the 180th power.
The facts above should give any atheist pause. These facts have made me an advocate of intelligent design, and that the intuitive conclusions of thoughtful mystics over the previous 5+ millenia have a basis in reality. I have no idea how or when God did it, but I rather think that he did.

There are many options on the table, a personified creator deity being the very least of the options. My take, is that it's just the natural evolution of the universe doing it's thing.
Quote:
Cosmic pessimism is unsupported by science.

... the idea that the evolution of humankind is purely an accident, divinely engineered or otherwise, ignores the vast mass of evidence that there are long-term trends in biological evolution. Over these millions of years there has been an irregular but unmistakable tendency toward adaptability to a greater range of environments, culminating in human adaptation to virtually any environment. Over this period the intelligence of the most developed animals on earth has risen with increasing speed, from trilobites, to fish, to amphibians, to the dinosaurs, to mammals, to primates, to the hominid apes and the direct ancestors of humankind.

Of course, through this long period there have been many chance events, many zigs and zags, advances and setbacks, which determined the exact timing and mode of the development of a creature capable of social evolution. Yet this unpredictability in no way erases the long-term tendency that makes the development of higher levels of intelligence, and eventually something resembling human beings, all but inevitable - as inevitable as the development of amino acids in a primal chemical soup.

Thus we find that the apparently improbable accidents of the universe are neither the products of a random and incomprehensible cosmos nor evidence for a designing creator. Rather, they are misinterpretations of the general evolution of the universe. - Eric Lerner

A misinterpretation of the general evolution of the universe. You have two extremes between a mechanistic universe and a deity designed universe and the correct answer may well be found in the middle, where most people tend not to look in their haste to jump from extreme (atheism/theism) to the other (theism/atheism).

The main problem with a literal creator God is which creator God from which mythology? Lets start there.

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The Jesus Mythicist Creed:
The "Jesus Christ" of the New Testament is a fictional composite of characters, real and mythical. A composite of multiple "people" is no one.

The celestial Origins of Religious Belief
ZG Part 1
Jesus: Hebrew Human or Mythical Messiah?


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 Post subject: Re: The Gnostic Gospels
PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 3:39 am 
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The above "answers" to my last point have one thing in common. They either didn't read it with understanding or blew it off a theistic defence of some particular anthropomorphic God figure. If any of the atheist or agnostic members or guests of this forum can dismiss Dr. Crick's arguments against blind chance for the creation of life, please let me know.


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