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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 6:36 pm 
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Acharya wrote:
I'm starting this thread with the hope that anyone who has come across good, modern scholarship which backs up contentions in the earlier edition of Christ Con or other mythicist works will post said resources here.
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It should be noted that few of these individuals are declared mythicists; nor do I concur necessarily with all of their research.



Hello Forum,

This is obviously my first post on this forum.

I have but one question, if you don't mind. Very politely, do any of the authors listed above know Jesus as their "personal savior?"

It may read like an obvious question but probably not for the reasons one might suspect - at least, not on the surface.

You see, I ask that question because I often times find that people who attempt to refute the existence of Jesus in history, can't at the same time admit to ever having a personal relationship with Him in their own lives. Which by logical extension means that they never knew him.

Ponder that last sentence for a moment and then repeat it again to yourself. 5...4...3...2...1...0. 'Which by logical extension means that they never knew him'.

One last set of questions again very politely: When was the last time someone asked you to prove the non-existence of someone you never knew personally?

You might say, hey, that's crazy because I never knew Caesar Augustus, but I sure can prove that he existed! Really - how? How does anyone who did not live before 63 A.D. and through 14 A.D. (at least), have the ability to prove that Caesar Augustus, actually existed as an historical figure?

Just a little something to ponder, if you don't mind me intruding a tad bit, here.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:37 pm 
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Hi and welcome to the party, AbsoluteTruth.

Yeah, many members of this forum were Christians who had that "personal relationship with Jesus" for many years including myself, Acharya and the forum moderators. As a former saved, baptized Christian of many years I can confirm that it's a complete load of crap based on euphoria (it feels good therefore, it must be true).

A major problem with your logic is that, apparently, the early Christians never knew Jesus as they make no mention of him at all until, at minimum, decades to a century later as if he never existed. Even Christian New Testament scholars concede the authors of the canonical gospels were not eyewitnesses either.

AbsoluteTruth wrote:
When was the last time someone asked you to prove the non-existence of someone you never knew personally?

Well, when was the last time someone claimed to be the son of god, born of a virgin who walked on water, performed miracles, died and resurrected from the dead asking to be our BFF? We don't feel the need to 'prove Jesus never existed' when there's no credible evidence that he did exist. Please help us out and post your very best evidence for Jesus's existence in your 'Proof For The Existence of God' thread.

Here's an image of the list of evidence between Jesus and Caesar

Image

Enjoy, "The God Who Wasn't There" (you'll find the "personal relationship with Jesus" bit starting at 41 minutes)




I recommend you stay in your own thread at 'Proof For The Existence of God' as we are totally burned out on trolls and frankly don't have time for it. You're welcome to be here but, we have zero patience for trolling up our threads by regurgitating Christian apologist rhetoric and propaganda that have already been addressed or debunked repeatedly.

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The Mythicist Position
Christ in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 10:19 am 
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Freethinkaluva22 wrote:
Hi and welcome to the party, AbsoluteTruth.

Yeah, many members of this forum were Christians who had that "personal relationship with Jesus" for many years including myself, Acharya and the forum moderators. As a former saved, baptized Christian of many years I can confirm that it's a complete load of crap based on euphoria (it feels good therefore, it must be true).

A major problem with your logic is that, apparently, the early Christians never knew Jesus as they make no mention of him at all until, at minimum, decades to a century later as if he never existed. Even Christian New Testament scholars concede the authors of the canonical gospels were not eyewitnesses either.

//
I recommend you stay in your own thread at 'Proof For The Existence of God' as we are totally burned out on trolls and frankly don't have time for it. You're welcome to be here but, we have zero patience for trolling up our threads by regurgitating Christian apologist rhetoric and propaganda that have already been addressed or debunked repeatedly.


Hello Freethinkaluva22, and hi all.

This is also my first post on this discussion board and I am happy to be here, thank you all.

With regard to topic, I do feel and know for sure that you are wrong in saying that Jesus was not part of the "Christ-event" that happened way back then, as he most certainly was because he is the way and only way in the transformation process that can befall the human mind.

The only difference that I see here is that it was not a historic event, but just different words were used to describe the same event that universally is best described as metamorphosis, here now with a new religious slant that became known as New Testament, and so is what made history.

The Jesus factor in it is where he is known as 'second Adam' who is called to undo the error of the first, and so now can be seen as the encasement of the total human condition to which he died at Calvary, is how the story goes.

Then of course the purpose of this was the set the Christ free, by example here, that thus was meant for us as NT people so that we could do the same and hence the "follow me."

To this I must add that the Christ-child never was a child but the infancy is real, and this is wherein human is reborn as man, there called the Christ, and fully man to become when all faith and doubt are removed from him. Hence the "my Lord and my God" as exclaimed by Thomas then.

This so makes the Gospels a purgation event wherein "the new must increase and the old must die," of which the cross is the final victory [event] and is also not more than that. From this follows that, regardless of how important Jesus was in this transformation stage of life, he also must be left behind (or he died in vain), much like a placenta that served its purpose and did nothing more than that.

Important to note here is that our human condition wherein we are "like god" (Gen.3:5) and who was first called Adam in Gen. 3:9 ("Adam where are you"), it is here now where Jesus as second Adam removes that "like god" image from us and thus makes us fully God, which then is conditional upon us moving into the upper room and there the origin of our riches find.

Bottom line? Placenta lickers is what I would call a so called Christian, and that maybe is why he was never popular back then.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 11:54 am 
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This thread was not created for Christian apologist trolls - it's for discussing the book, The Christ Conspiracy: The Greatest Story Ever Sold. The title of this thread should give it away:

Modern Scholarship Confirming Christ Conspiracy Contentions

Please, at least give the thread a skim before posting off topic. I may have to move these posts to a new thread.

We are very familiar with the bible here and there exists no valid evidence for the existence of Jesus. The early Christians didn't even believe in a human Jesus, for example, Paul believed in a heavenly or spiritual Jesus and knew nothing of the earthly story of Jesus and he never believed Jesus's death and resurrection happened on earth but in a spiritual realm.

The Babylonians, Egyptians and many others had cross symbols long before Christianity ever existed.

Matthew 16:24 KJV "If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me."

Mark 8:34 RSV "And he called to him the multitude with his disciples, and said to them, "If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me."

Luke 14:27 KJV "And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple."

Quote:
"The cross & the crucifix are very ancient symbols found around the world long prior to the advent of the Christian savior. In the gospel story Jesus tells his disciples to 'take up the cross' & follow him. Obviously, the cross already existed and was a well-known symbol, such that Jesus did not even have to explain this strange statement about an object that, we are led to believe, only gained significance AFTER Jesus died on it."

- Christ Conspiracy pg 218

It sounds like you need to watch this too:

"The God Who Wasn't There"


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2013 Astrotheology Calendar
The Mythicist Position
Christ in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection
Stellar House Publishing at Youtube


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 6:32 pm 
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Chili660 wrote:
[you are wrong in saying that Jesus was not part of the "Christ-event" .


This is the same Chili who wastes people's time with meaningless crap at the Free Thought and Rationalism Discussion Board. Perhaps let him start his own thread for a bit but ban him if he posts elsewhere on the board.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 6:49 pm 
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I just watched a video this girl I know from school who happens to be a Christian (pentacostal) had sent me a link to on my face book pagehttp://www.thedevineevidence.com/jesu This video is about non-biblical evidence to Jesus historical existence. Three names were mentioned as proof, Including Tacitus and Josephus among possibly 3 others. The video showed and quoted a historical document from Josephus where it mentioned Jesus by name, claiming he was a wise man and the Christ. I was interested in knowing what do you think of that document and is there anyway to prove it's a forgery?


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 3:38 pm 
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I expect that FreeThinka will be along shortly with an index of links on the topic for more thoroughness, but for now, off the top of my head, here are the main reasons for strongly suspecting the passage is an interpolation:

1) It breaks the flow of the narrative within the greater context of that portion of the book. If you remove the TF, the preceding & proceeding sections segue into each other seamlessly.

2) The wording used venerates Jesus in a manner that smacks of a Christian bias. It doesn't sound characteristic of Josephus, most notably, the explicit confession that "he was the Christ."

3) No one prior to Eusebius ever mentions the TF, even though some writers prior to Eusebius did quote from Josephus and showed great familiarity with his books, they never once hinted at any existence of the TF.

4) (I'll have to recheck my notes for accuracy since it's been a few years since I've mentioned this one) Several Jewish Medieval manuscripts were found with the TF entirely omitted, and were subsequently confiscated and burned, indicating a possible cover-up.

5) The Arabic manuscript of the TF is the earliest extant copy containing the TF and yet is shorter than the traditional Greek/Latin version. This would seem to indicate accretion over time, something that often accompanies forged texts.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 9:05 am 
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FYI, the "No True Scottsman" fallacy usually accompanies a Christian suggestion that mythicists were never Christians and never knew Jesus. When faced with the reality that the vast majority of mythicists are ex-Christians the apologetic line is usually "No true Christian" would ever turn away from Christianity.

And yet, most mythicists were once every bit as Christian and possibly just as pious as any one out there at one point in time, while under the delusion of misapplied belief. So I'll step forward in suggesting that these new visiting apologists tread carefully when approaching the "No True Scottsman" fallacy on this board....

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The Jesus Mythicist Creed:
The "Jesus Christ" of the New Testament is a fictional composite of characters, real and mythical. A composite of multiple "people" is no one.

The celestial Origins of Religious Belief
ZG Part 1
Jesus: Hebrew Human or Mythical Messiah?


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 6:15 am 
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Amen Hotep wrote:
I just watched a video this girl I know from school who happens to be a Christian (pentacostal) had sent me a link to on my face book pagehttp://www.thedevineevidence.com/jesu This video is about non-biblical evidence to Jesus historical existence. Three names were mentioned as proof, Including Tacitus and Josephus among possibly 3 others. The video showed and quoted a historical document from Josephus where it mentioned Jesus by name, claiming he was a wise man and the Christ. I was interested in knowing what do you think of that document and is there anyway to prove it's a forgery?


The stramge thing about Josephus mentioning Jesus by name and reference as the Christ. Is that the Messiah (Hebrew)/ Christos (Greek), or the anointed if you like. Is that Josephus as Jewish, would not speak of the Christ simply as a minor detail. The previous Jewish Christ was if I am not mistaken, Cyrus the Christ.

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Never place blame on man, because it happens to all. No matter how wise, a fool he becomes, when love steals his powers.

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