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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 2:30 pm 
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Is Jesus a Myth? by S. Michael Houdmann

Is Jesus a myth?

" is an outreach of"

Just more of the same Christian apologist crap that's been addressed and debunked throughout this forum repeatedly.

S. Michael Houdmann wrote:
"The claim that Jesus was a myth or an exaggeration originated in the writings of liberal German theologians in the nineteenth century."

- Justin Martyr's "Dialogue with the Jew Tryphon" around 150 CE with Tryphon essentially declaring that Jesus is a Christian invention as no evidence for Jesus existed, even back then; debunking those who claim that the first time anybody ever claimed Jesus was a myth was in the 18th/19th centuries.

- Also at around 150 CE we have Justin Martyr's First Apology conceding parallels:

"And when we say also that the Word, who is the first-birth of God, was produced without sexual union, and that He, Jesus Christ, our Teacher, was crucified and died, and rose again, and ascended into heaven, we propound nothing different from what you [PAGANS] believe regarding those whom you esteem sons of Jupiter [ZEUS]...."

- Celsus may have been another early mythicist (c. 177) as he pointed out that Jesus was a collage of mythical characters borrowed from Pagan mythologies, which, once again, essentially proves theists & those atheists wrong who claim that the first time anybody ever claimed Jesus was a myth was in the 18th/19th centuries.

- Why I Am a Mythicist

S. Michael Houdmann wrote:
"Of note is the fact that none of the books containing these theories were taken seriously by the academics of the day"

Give this thread a serious going over: Religion and the Ph.D.: A Brief History

S. Michael Houdmann wrote:
"It has only been recently that these assertions have been resurrected, primarily due to the rise of the Internet and the mass distribution of information from unaccountable sources."

Give this article a serious going over: Were George Washington and Thomas Jefferson Jesus Mythicists?

S. Michael Houdmann wrote:
"This leads us to the next area of investigation—do the mythological gods of antiquity really mirror the person of Jesus Christ? As an example, the Zeitgeist movie makes these claims about the Egyptian god Horus:"

• He was born on December 25 of a virgin: Isis Mary
• A star in the East proclaimed his arrival
• Three kings came to adore the newborn “savior”
• He became a child prodigy teacher at age 12
• At age 30 he was “baptized” and began a “ministry”
• Horus had twelve “disciples”
• Horus was betrayed
• He was crucified
• He was buried for three days
• He was resurrected after three days

However, when the actual writings about Horus are competently examined, this is what we find:

• Horus was born to Isis; there is no mention in history of her being called “Mary.” Moreover, “Mary” is our Anglicized form of her real name, Miryam or Miriam. “Mary” was not even used in the original texts of Scripture."

Here are some images for Isis-Meri (Isis Beloved)




Source: Egyptian Hieroglyphs with the inscription Àset-Meri (Isis Beloved) at the British Museum - The Nile: Notes for Travellers in Egypt (1905), by Ernest Alfred Wallis Budge (page 712, 719 and 722 of the following edition: link)

From here and here. Other images here.

S. Michael Houdmann wrote:
"Isis was not a virgin; she was the widow of Osiris and conceived Horus with Osiris."

"The Pyramid Texts speak of "the great virgin" (Hwn.t wr.t) three times 682c, 728a, 2002a"

"In a text in the Abydos Temple of Seti I, Isis herself declares: "I am the great virgin"

- Christ in Egypt, page 152,

* Pyramid Texts are 4,400 years old

"...Horus was not the only sun-god recognised by the Egyptians. His own father Osiris, the Savior (of whom Horus was a re-incarnation), was born—also at the winter solstice—of an immaculate virgin, the goddess Neith, who, like Isis, the mother of Horus, was known by the titles of Mother of God, Immaculate Virgin, Queen of Heaven, Star of the Sea, The Morning Star, The Intercessor."

- William Williamson, The Great Law: A Study of Religious Origins, 26

"The miraculous birth of Jesus could be viewed as analogous to that of Horus, whom Isis conceived posthumously from Osiris, and Mary was closely connected with Isis by many other shared characteristics."

- Dr. Erik Hornung, The Secret Lore of Egypt, 75

"The Egyptian goddess who was equally ‘the Great Virgin’ (hwnt) and ‘Mother of the God’ was the object of the very same praise bestowed upon her successor [Mary, Virgin Mother of Jesus]."

- Dr. R.E. Witt, Isis in the Ancient World, 273

"...the resemblances between Isis and the Virgin Mary are far too close and numerous to be accidental. There can, in fact, be no question that the Isiac cult was a profound influence on other religions, not least Christianity ... [Isis] was the sacred embodiment of motherhood, yet was known as the Great Virgin, an apparent contradiction that will be familiar to Christians."

- Dr. James Curl, The Egyptian Revival, 12-13

- Christ in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection, page 120

Below is a video clip of modern Egyptologist Dr. Bojana Mojsov admitting parallels between Osiris &/or Horus with Jesus. And, at 5:30 you'll see a stone carving of Isis as she hovers over Osiris in the form of a bird to receive the divine seed (notice there's no 'member') of Osiris. Mojsov then says, "It's a miraculous birth of the savior child."

In the supposed "sex scene" below Osiris and Isis DID NOT have literal sex it was supernatural as indicated by Isis hovering over Osiris in the forum of a BIRD, and this is when Horus was conceived with Dr. Mojsov then saying, "It's a miraculous birth of the savior child."

'Osiris...begetting a son by Isis, who hovers over him in the form of a hawk.'
(Budge, On the Future Life: Egyptian Religion, 80)


S. Michael Houdmann wrote:
"Horus was not “baptized.” The only account of Horus that involves water is one story where Horus is torn to pieces, with Isis requesting the crocodile god to fish him out of the water."

No, that was Osiris who was torn into 14 pieces symbolizing the days of the waning moon. Nevertheless, Horus was purified with water i.e. baptized as baptism was not originated by Christianity as scholars concede. Below, the Catholic encyclopedia admits baptism existed long before Christianity against their own interests:

“How natural and expressive the symbolism of exterior washing to indicate interior purification was recognized to be, is plain from the practice also of the heathen systems of religion. The use of lustral water is found among the Babylonians, Assyrians, Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, Hindus, and others.”
- Catholic Encyclopedia, “Baptism” (II, 260)

- Christ in Egypt, page 233

Christ in Egypt has a 30 page chapter on that subject alone starting on page 233. There's too much info to just pluck out a couple quotes which don't do Acharya's work on this subject justice.

S. Michael Houdmann wrote:
"Horus did not have 12 disciples. According to the Horus accounts, Horus had four demigods that followed him, and there are some indications of 16 human followers and an unknown number of blacksmiths that went into battle with him."

There's a 20 page chapter on that subject in Christ in Egypt starting at the bottom of page 269. Here's an image along with the caption under it from very highly respected Egyptologist Eric Hornung's book on the 12 at Acharya's description page for CIE for all to see. There are many more images of "the twelve" in the book.

Horus enthroned before the Twelve, Seventh Hour of the Amduat. (Erik Hornung, The Ancient Egyptian Books of the Afterlife, 48)

S. Michael Houdmann wrote:
"Horus did not die by crucifixion. There are various accounts of Horus’ death, but none of them involve crucifixion."

Was Horus "Crucified?"

Please read the Sourcebook for further information on Zeitgeist part 1.

Please read the Rebuttal to Dr. Chris Forbes for more information about Horus.

Please read Mithra: The Pagan Christ and the FORUM THREAD for more information regarding Mithra.

Primary Sources, Publications and Scholars Cited in The ZEITGEIST Sourcebook

"Contrary to popular misconception, the information in the religion part of the hit internet movie, the first "Zeitgeist" film comes from numerous primary sources, including the following, as well as the works of highly credentialed authorities in the best academic publications, also listed here. It should be noted that this list does not include the multitude of other artifacts and writings from antiquity that may be found in the other works of D.M. Murdock/Acharya S.

Ancient artifacts and archaeological sites

Lascaux, Altamira and Trois Freres cave paintings
Tassili N'Aijer figures
Mohenjo-daro, Indus Valley site
Goseck, Germany
Thirteen Towers, Chankillo, Peru
Nabta Playa, Egypt
Karanovo Tablet
Dendera zodiac and other Egyptian artifacts
Brindisi disk
Greek pottery, paintings, mosaics, temples
Roman mosaics, paintings and statuary
Early Christian artifacts, etc.

Murdock does research in a variety of languages, both modern and ancient, such as: Ancient and modern Greek, Latin, Hebrew, Sanskrit, Vedic, Persian, Egyptian, Coptic, French, Italian, Spanish, German and a smattering of other languages as the need arises.

Ancient Writings

Egyptian hymns, hieroglyphs, papyri and carvings
Pyramid Texts
Coffin Texts
Book of the Dead
Diodorus Siculus
Justin Martyr
Minucius Felix
Clement Alexandrinus
Julius Firmicus Maternus
Bhagavad Gita
Bhagavata Purana
Lalita Vistara
Vishnu Purana
Venerable Bede
Epic of Gilgamesh
Assyrian, Babylonia, Akkadian tablets
Dead Sea Scrolls

The information also comes from the best and most thorough, scholarly and modern sources wherever possible, with the result that many authorities cited possess credentials from respected institutes of higher learning, and their publishers are some of the most scholarly in English (and other languages), such as the following.

Academic Publishers

E.J. Brill
Kegan Paul
Oxford University/Clarendon Press
Princeton University Press
Cambridge University Press
Cornell University Press
Yale University Press
University of Chicago Press
University of Pennsylvania Press
University of Wisconsin Press
Johns Hopkins Press
Harcourt, Brace & Co.
Macmillan & Co., etc.

Those who really know what academia is will recognize the list above as the best of the most respected institutes of higher learning.

Professional Scholars

Dr. Miranda J. Aldhouse-Green, a professor of Archaeology at Cardiff University
Dr. Lee I.A. Levine, a professor at the Jewish Theological Seminary
Dr. Edwin C. Krupp, director of the Griffith Observatory
Dr. Emund S. Meltzer, American Egyptologist
Dr. James P. Allen, curator of Egyptian Art at the Metropolitan Museum of Art
Dr. Erik Hornung, professor emeritus of Egyptology at the University of Basel
Dr. Henri Frankfort, Dutch Egyptologist
Dr. Jan Assman, professor of Egyptology at the University of Konstanz
Dr. Badrya Serry, director of the Antiquities Museum at the Bibliotheca Alexandrina in Egypt
Dr. Bojana Mojsov, Egyptologist
Dr. Reginald E. Witt, Egyptologist and professor at the University of London
Dr. G. Johannes Botterweck, professor of Old Testament and Catholic Theology at the University of Bonn
Dr. Alfred Wiedermann, Egyptologist and professor of Oriental Languages at the University of Bonn
Dr. John Gwyn Griffiths, Welsh professor of Classics and Egyptology
Dr. Raymond O. Faulkner, English Egyptologist
Dr. Tryggve N.D. Mettinger, professor of Old Testament Studies at the University of Lund
Rev. Dr. Alfred Bertholet, a theologian and professor at the University of Göttingen
Dr. Herman te Velde, a chairman of the Department of Egyptology at the University of Groningen
Dr. Andrew T. Fear, professor of Classics and Ancient History at the University of Manchester
Dr. David Adams Leeming, professor emeritus of English and comparative literature at the University of Connecticut
Dr. Patricia A. Johnston, Brandeis University professor of Classical Studies
Dr. David John Tacey, professor at La Trobe University
Dr. Edwin F. Bryant, professor of Hinduism at Rutgers University
Dr. Hugo Rahner, Jesuit theologian, dean and president of Innsbruck University
Sir Dr. Edmund Ronald Leach, Cambridge professor and anthropologist
Dr. Donald White, professor emeritus of Classics at the University of Pennsylvania
Dr. Martin Schwartz, professor of Iranian Studies at the University of California
Rev. Dr. Harold R. Willoughby, professor of New Testament and Early Christian Literature at the University of Chicago
Dr. Mary Boyce, professor of Iranian Studies
Dr. Payam Nabarz, Iranian scholar
Dr. Marvin Meyers, a professor of Religious Studies at Chapman College
Dr. Theony Condos, professor at the American University of Armenia
Dr. Aviram Oshri, senior archaeologist with the Israeli Antiquities Authority
Dr. Chris Dolan, American astronomer
Rev. Dunbar T. Heath of the Anthropological Institute of Great Britain and Ireland
Dr. John L. Heilbron, professor of History at the University of California, Berkeley
Dr. K.A. Heinrich Kellner, a professor of Catholic Theology at the University of Bonn
Dr. David Ulansey, philosopher professor at California Institute of Integral Studies
Dr. Robert M. Schoch, geologist and professor at Boston University
Dr. Henricus Oort, Dutch theologian and professor of Hebrew Antiquities at the University of Leiden
Rev. Dr. J. Glen Taylor, an associate professor of Old Testament at the University of Toronto

- Primary Sources, Publications and Scholars Cited in The Zeitgeist Sourcebook

For more Christian apologists who've been exposed and debunked:

Dr. Chris Forbes on Zeitgeist part 1, DEBUNKED

Did Jesus Really Exist? by Dr. Paul Maier, DEBUNKED

Challenging the Zeitgeist Movie by Dr. Mark Foreman, DEBUNKED

Dr. John Oakes, DEBUNKED

William Lane Craig, DEBUNKED

Pagan Parallels: Achilles Heel of Christianity

Religion and the Ph.D.: A Brief History - a must read

2013 Astrotheology Calendar
The Mythicist Position
Christ in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection
Stellar House Publishing at Youtube

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