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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 3:39 pm 
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Mr Bridger wrote:
Mriana - if your last essay task at college was anything to go by, you may want to check out the parallels between the film 'Good Will Hunting' and the 'Platform Sutra of Hui Neng'.


Well, to be honest, I have yet to be impressed by this prof's teaching of Hinduism. It seems to me that the main focus has been the Bhagavad-Gita. :roll: Very little emphasis has been placed on the other Hindu texts. A student to easily get the idea that the Bhagavad-Gita is the Hindu Bible, the main text of Hinduism. I am not that nieve and know various Hindu sects focus on other texts as well.

I have yet to start the paper, which is due the 5th, where he wants us to write on the Legend of Bagger Vance and the Hinduism (again the Gita) expressed in the movie. I told the prof, in class, from what I can tell, the philosophy in Bagger Vance could be associated with ANY philosophy- Christian, New Age, etc, not just the Gita and I just don't see it as the main focus in the movie. He agreed with me and told the class that I was right- even Christianity. IMHO, this prof is full of it- not sure what "it" is though, but he's full of it and is putting too much into the movie.

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Nonviolence is the greatest force at the disposal of mankind. It is mightier than the mightiest weapon of destruction devised by the ingenuity of man. ~ Gandhi

Non-violence leads to the highest ethics, which is the goal of all evolution. Until we stop harming all other living beings, we are still savages. ~ Thomas A. Edison


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 5:37 pm 
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Your prof will probably end up quitting before your course is over if you go on like this. Reminds me of that scene in Omen II when Damian is wiping the floor with his school teacher :twisted:

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 6:05 pm 
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It sounds like this Professor needs a copy of "Suns of God"?

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 6:16 pm 
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It would probably give him a nosebleed.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 9:31 pm 
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Well, I just finished watching it and even my older son counted branch of Voodoo that believes in Loas and also Zen Buddhism with "don't think, just do it", besides the obvious Christianity with the quote of Isaiah 11:6 and a variation of "The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh", in which Bagger Vance said, "It was the stupidest thing he ever heard. :lol: Loved that one. There was, believe it or not, a touch of Humanism with the idea that the game can't be won, just played- not just in reference to golf, but to life.

Loas, according to my son, show up when needed and only ask for one thing in return. In this case, Bagger Vance asked for $5 guaranteed and he didn't stick around to receive the 10% of the winnings. He left when he wasn't needed anymore.

There was also a potential reference to astrotheology when Bagger Vance referred to the sun's position and which way the grassed leaned at given time of day. Then said it was living and breathing, just trying to survive, just as we all, are by following the sun.

It was just philosophy in general and not specifically any relation to the Gita- IMO, but I have to write on that. Whatever! He's lost his mind IMHO.

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Nonviolence is the greatest force at the disposal of mankind. It is mightier than the mightiest weapon of destruction devised by the ingenuity of man. ~ Gandhi

Non-violence leads to the highest ethics, which is the goal of all evolution. Until we stop harming all other living beings, we are still savages. ~ Thomas A. Edison


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:22 am 
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Hermes Trismegistus and the Hermetic Writings
http://students.roanoke.edu/groups/relg ... /cult.html

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:44 am 
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Damn! Storming here again. I'll have to read it later. I just hope there are no more tornado warnings here again tonight. 3 hours worth was far too much. :(

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Nonviolence is the greatest force at the disposal of mankind. It is mightier than the mightiest weapon of destruction devised by the ingenuity of man. ~ Gandhi

Non-violence leads to the highest ethics, which is the goal of all evolution. Until we stop harming all other living beings, we are still savages. ~ Thomas A. Edison


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 4:15 am 
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The Gods are trying to stop you from discovering the secrets of the universe :)

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 4:18 am 
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FFL is onto something there with the Hermetic stuff - any mystery school worth its salt traces a lineage back to Khem. Khem has also been interpreted as being an earlier version of Ham in the Bible.

You may also want to look into the history of the Tablets of Thoth.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 1:13 pm 
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Mr Bridger wrote:
The Gods are trying to stop you from discovering the secrets of the universe :)


The first round of hiding from tornados, there were three large wooden pictures (2 Jesus and 1 Mother Mary) on the extremely low sitting shelf in the closet under the stairs. I got this picture in my mind of them cutting like a knife through my son and me. I was throwing them out of the closet when my older son said, "What are you doing?" I replied, "I'm throwing out Jesus. He's too dangerous."

Looking back, that was a riot in the middle of a stressing situation. :twisted:

Anyway, great article, Freethinka. Thanks for sharing it. :)

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Nonviolence is the greatest force at the disposal of mankind. It is mightier than the mightiest weapon of destruction devised by the ingenuity of man. ~ Gandhi

Non-violence leads to the highest ethics, which is the goal of all evolution. Until we stop harming all other living beings, we are still savages. ~ Thomas A. Edison


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 1:36 pm 
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Those twisters were on the news Mriana.

Hey, read up on chapter 17 "The Meaning of Revelation" in Christ Conspiracy" on page 265. There's some fantastic information there.

----

70ce "The Essenes, a sect of Jewish ascetics with apocalyptic beliefs, may have seen the Jewish revolt against the Romans in 66-70 as the final end-time battle. (Source: PBS Frontline special Apocalypse!)"

2nd century "The Montanists believed that Christ would come again within their lifetimes and establish a new Jerusalem at Pepuza, in the land of Phrygia. Montanism was perhaps the first bona fide Christian doomsday cult. It was founded ca. 156 AD by the tongues-speaking prophet Montanus and two followers, Priscilla and Maximilla. Despite the failure of Jesus to return, the cult lasted for several centuries. Tertullian, who once said "I believe it just because it is unbelievable" (a true skeptic if ever there was one!), was perhaps the most renowned Montanist. (Gould p.43-44)"
http://www.abhota.info/end1.htm

The early church and early church fathers were obsessed with doomsday prophecies. To many to mention here, check the link for more...

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Christ in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 1:41 pm 
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Freethinkaluva22 wrote:
Those twisters were on the news Mriana.


I figured they would be. Last year at this time it was hell with the ice storm and now it's hell with tornados. :( I was not having fun last night and I'm half asleep today.

Thanks for the link to the timeline. I had no idea apocalyptic stories went so far back in time.

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Mriana

Nonviolence is the greatest force at the disposal of mankind. It is mightier than the mightiest weapon of destruction devised by the ingenuity of man. ~ Gandhi

Non-violence leads to the highest ethics, which is the goal of all evolution. Until we stop harming all other living beings, we are still savages. ~ Thomas A. Edison


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 1:57 pm 
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Oh yeah,

2800 BC:

"According to Isaac Asimov's Book of Facts (1979), an Assyrian clay tablet dating to approximately 2800 BC was unearthed bearing the words "Our earth is degenerate in these latter days. There are signs that the world is speedily coming to an end. Bribery and corruption are common." This is one of the earliest examples of the perception of moral decay in society being interpreted as a sign of the imminent end."
http://www.abhota.info/end1.htm

Has anyone viewed the PBS Frontline special "Apocalypse"?
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline ... pocalypse/

:shock:

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Christ in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 10:32 am 
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Mr Bridger wrote:
Given the ancient and second-hand nature of much of the other material in the Bible, maybe the events it referred to already 'happened' a very long time ago - it could refer to the big cataclysm thingy from c.12,000 years ago, the characteristics of which we're only just starting to piece together.


Hello new here. But I think if you read into it a lot of what was expected to happen I believe the men that wrote the Bible expected it to happen in their lifetime. Given that, theres been so much speculation about this its hard to know what to believe.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 8:15 am 
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The Meaning of Revelation

In The Christ Conspiracy – The Greatest Story Ever Sold, Acharya S provides one of the best available analyses of the closing book of the New Testament, the Apocalypse of John the Divine, in her chapter titled The Meaning of Revelation.

By explaining the origins of much of the text in ancient astrotheology from Egypt and Babylon dating back many thousands of years, The Christ Conspiracy observes that the cryptic symbols may readily be explained as a natural cosmology. For example, the seven stars, eyes, lampstands, scrolls etc are the seven planets, the twelve gates of the holy city New Jerusalem and the tree of life with its twelve fruits are the twelve signs of the zodiac, and the four creatures around the throne of God are the four zodiac signs Taurus, Leo, Scorpio and Aquarius. To these may be added that the river of life is the Milky Way galaxy and the Alpha and Omega is the moment of shift from one Great Year to the next.

Acharya S gets to the nub of the book with her comment that “Revelation records the mythos of the precession of the equinoxes, or the “Great Year”, and was apparently written to usher in the Age of Aries, which began around 4,400 years ago.” Observing how the Christian authors drew on much older texts puts the document in context while leaving open the question of how much they updated the ideas from a previous epoch for the then dawning Age of Pisces.

These stellar analogies provide a basis to start to interpret Revelation against a rational and scientific framework, seeking to discern the real intent of the authors. Much of the text is far older than the time of the New Testament. It appears that an esoteric tradition within the Christian movement was able to include the ancient symbolism of the stars in order to explain, if only in hidden and cryptic terms, the cosmology of the new faith.

My reasons for writing these comments are, firstly, to encourage people to read The Christ Conspiracy in order to foster an informed discussion of main themes in Christian theology, and secondly, to mention some areas in which Acharya S’s analysis opens questions which warrant further discussion.

Stylistically, Acharya S is given to bold statements. She opens the chapter with the statement that revelation is “not prophecy” (265). As well, she describes mysterious numbers, such as the 666 of the Beast and the 144,000 of the elect, in a way that could give a reader the impression these symbols have a single definite meaning. For example, she writes “the 144,000 elect are the 360° of the zodiacal circle multiplied by the four minutes it takes the sun to move one degree, times 100.” While true, it is rather bold to suggest this captures the entire meaning of the 144,000. For example, the myth that Christ spent forty hours in hell between his death and resurrection amounts to 144,000 seconds, one for each of the saints of the elect. The use of such numbers by the ancient authors remains rather mysterious, with possible multiple overlapping meanings. Taking astrotheology as the starting point for interpretation is essential, but care is needed not to close off fruitful lines of enquiry.

Acharya S says the 666 is the sacred number of the Goddess, vilified by the patriarchy (271). To my reading this is an important observation but it only captures a small part of the complex meaning of the ‘human number’.which traditionally has been interpreted as the symbol of imperial control, in ignorance of cosmic wisdom. Considered as prophecy, the 666 could be considered a prediction of the degeneration of human thought over the course of the Age of Pisces, and of regeneration of the earth in a new Age of Aquarius after 2148 years. Seeing the Roman Empire as the culmination of the Age of Aries, if we look for a similar culmination of the Age of Pisces we can see that the USA, now moving more into an imperial status, embeds the 666 in the name of its currency, the United States Dollar, which serves as a main instrument of imperial control. Such a correlation does not capture the entire meaning of the human number, but indicates how the text is open to new interpretation. If the ancient method of numerical analysis has any empirical basis, it is hardly surprising that this symbol of the number of control would appear so prominently as we now again approach a cusp between zodiacal ages.

To my reading, Acharya S’s statement that Revelation is not prophecy is in tension with analysis of the text as a discussion of the Great Year. The observation that Revelation invites us to see the precession of the equinoxes as marking the structure of time provides a basis to analyse the theory of time of the Bible, seeing the Ages of the zodiac as the framework for Christian understanding of the end times and the identity of Jesus Christ.

The Christ Conspiracy is devoted to the argument that Jesus Christ is a myth. The case is compelling that the Jesus of the Gospels was compiled from a range of legendary and prophetic sources, and does not describe a historic individual. And yet, the nagging suspicion remains that this mythic character may have a historic origin in a single person who had a prophetic vision of the shape of time, reflected in the hidden Biblical use of the precession of the equinox to understand the passage of time.

We can readily imagine that a range of stories current among the Jewish and nearby subject peoples of the Roman Empire could have been combined into the Gospel narrative in the years after Rome destroyed the temple in Jerusalem in 70 AD. Such a new faith appeared in that desolate time as the only feasible means to organise opposition to Rome. A guiding principle was that the exoteric public story should be believable for a mass audience. In order to reach out to the illiterate poor as a key constituency, the God-man Jesus Christ had to be credible as an actual miracle worker who performed the actions described.

The esoteric story, the hidden secret message, also had to be included in the gospel narrative, but the politics for this were very problematic. The story of the Great Year is a mysterious and difficult argument that in fact provides the parables and passion with their drive and meaning, but is hidden from surface reading. This esoteric vision, grounded in ancient star religion, may well derive from a single person of genius, but was too complex to provide the basis of a mass religion as an overt message. Perhaps the Jewish hostility to pagan star religion required this tactic of concealment, but whatever the reason, the references to the Great Year soon became subject of suppression by the imperial church as residues of the former pagan age, and have now been almost entirely forgotten. Acharya’s work is an important step in the reconstruction of this ancient cosmic vision.

How is this esoteric prophetic vision of ancient star religion encoded in Revelation? To answer this question we can take Acharya’s analysis as a starting point, and build upon it. The Great Year is an actual cosmic framework for history as a scientific observation of the slow cycle of the stars. This cosmic framework was directly used in the gospels to provide the Alpha and Omega point, the moment when the equinox precessed from the constellation of Aries into Pisces at the time of Christ. All the lamb and fish imagery of the New Testament can be interpreted against this stellar code. The loaves and fishes are the equinox axis of Virgo and Pisces, and the 5000 are the visible stars, enabling production of cosmic abundance from the smallest sources.

In Revelation, this stellar code is taken to a new level. The twelve jewels which provide the foundations of the holy city (Rev 21:19-20) are the twelve zodiac signs in reverse from Pisces to Aries, a clear statement of Acharya’s claim that the holy city refers to the Great Year. This interpretation is present in mainstream Christianity as far as the reverse zodiac is concerned, but the obvious link to the Great Year is absent from orthodox commentary. A further example is the river of life, with the tree of life growing with its twelve fruits “on either side of the river” (Rev 22.2) The only way a tree can grow on two sides of a river is as a symbol. Indeed, looking for a natural reflection of this symbolic image, we can see that the Milky Way, the river of the sky, cuts straight through the ‘twelve fruits’ of the zodiac, at the points of Taurus and Scorpio.

Here we see the ‘twelve fruits’ growing ‘on both sides of the river’. The milky way is shown as the white band across the middle of the picture, with the northern hemisphere on the left and the southern hemisphere on the right. No other meaning is conceivable for this symbol. This analysis of the stellar imagery of Revelation is decisive for astrotheology. The twelve jewels in particular provide a framework upon which the whole Bible can be understood as description of the cultural shifts over the millennia marked by the movement through the Great Year. Against the Vedic theory of the Yuga cycle from the Golden Age to the Silver, Bronze and Iron Ages, we can immediately see that the 24,000 year theory with nadir in 500 AD indicates that the golden age was the period when the spring equinox occurred with the sun to the north of the Milky Way.

Another telling example of the correspondence between Biblical symbols and the precession is how the seven days of creation described in Genesis provide a map for the idea from Saint Peter that one thousand years are as a day for God. Augustine and Joachim of Flores developed this idea as an eschatological theory of history over seven thousand years from Adam to the millennium. Taking this further, we may place this 7000 year period within the 26,000 Yuga and Great Year cycle, and observe that this seven thousand year period readily maps to the vision in Revelation of the tribulation, the ‘time, times and half a time’ of suffering before the reconciliation of the earth in Christ, and to the period of fall into ignorance in the Yuga cycle.

If the three and a half times of the tribulation are seen as 3.5 zodiacal ages, we have roughly 7000 years covering the Age of Taurus (Adam ~ 4300 BC), the Age of Aries (Abraham 2150 BC), the Age of Pisces (Christ 0) and the first half of the Age of Aquarius (2150 – 3225 AD), a period that matches the old Christian vision. This seventh day in the Age of Aquarius corresponds to the Biblical Sabbath, the day of rest and peace and healing. The equation of this period to the bible is to the millennium of rule by Christ in preparation for the final war with evil.

Revelation 20 describes “an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand. He seized the dragon, the old serpent, which is the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole inhabited earth, and bound him for a thousand years, and cast him into the abyss, and shut it, and sealed it over him, that he should deceive the nations no more, until the thousand years were finished. After this, he must be freed for a short time.” Interpreting this vision as a prediction of the first part of the Age of Aquarius presents a coherent story that is compatible with the stellar imagery of the Bible.

The point I am working towards is that Acharya’s claim that Revelation is not a book of prophecy deserves further analysis. The Christ Conspiracy makes the point that many efforts to interpret Revelation as prophecy have been flawed, especially regarding the 666 of the number of the beast. Acharya S could expand on this observation to ask what the Great Year might say about the long term structure of human history.

It seems to me that the Great Year framework indicates that the Christian eschatology of the Second Coming of Jesus Christ points to the dawn of the Age of Aquarius as the time of the parousia, when God will be known as all in all. Against the ‘seven days of creation’ motif, this model of time indicates that the last ‘day’ of the seven thousand years of history is seen as a Sabbath, a day of rest, when the destruction of the earth caused over the 6000 years of human dominion and control of nature will be healed, as Christ ‘reconciles all things to himself’, meaning that human society becomes attuned to its cosmic context.

John Michel, in City of Revelation, provides some useful ideas around this question of the reconciliation of humanity and nature in the parousia as a way to consider Revelation as a work of prophecy. Michel’s argument is that two cosmic principles are in battle in the Revelation, represented by the numbers 666 and 1080. The 666 is the forces of human control and order, while the 1080, half the traditional Zodiac Age of 2160 years, equals the thousand years as a day seen against the timescale of precession.

In fact, the precession period is about 25,765 years, shorter than the 25,920 years of tradition. Intriguingly, this cosmic difference plays out in the Gospel, with the sending of the 72 disciples. It takes 71.6 years for the equinox to precess by one degree of arc, just under 72 years. Hence the ambivalence over whether there are 70 or 72 disciples appears to reflect actual ancient knowledge that the precession degree period was slightly less than 72 years.

This hidden wisdom of Revelation has been concealed because the church took the exoteric story of the gospels as its authority, and suppressed the esoteric stellar interpretation. Looking back to the text with new eyes is a way to make all things new.

Robert Tulip
28 March 2010


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