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PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 6:23 pm 
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vega wrote:
The 'heavens' are the 'smoking gun' of religion.

The 1st commandment should have been: "Thou shalt not look up" :D

I just thought that I'd second this statement. Vega was a wise and helpful member of this online community and his videos are some of the best on youtube.

RIP
8)

I had a nice clear view of the "Three Kings" rising in the east last night. It's cool because every since I caught wind of the nativity in the stars I can sit back and point the nativity out to whoever I happen to be standing outside with. And no one even tries to contest it when we're standing there looking right up at the stars, it's way too obvious to try and contest. I know I've told my mom and sister before, but they didn't really 'get it' until I explained the nativity last night while out by the fire.

The other cool thing is that I get a very good view of the sun's journey between the extremes of summer and winter solstice out here because the road I take to work every day points due east. It's interesting to watch the sun slowly move past different land marks over the year and it's so bloody obvious how easy it was for the ancients to notice these annual movements and mythologize them. I think that I get a lot more enjoyment out of the Christmas season now that I've learned the astrotheology of Christmas.

_________________
The Jesus Mythicist Creed:
The "Jesus Christ" of the New Testament is a fictional composite of characters, real and mythical. A composite of multiple "people" is no one.

The celestial Origins of Religious Belief
ZG Part 1
Jesus: Hebrew Human or Mythical Messiah?


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 8:25 am 
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Tat, Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you and to all readers at Free Thought Nation.

In Florida, at about 27 degrees North, you can see the manger of Christ rising in the south east at midnight on Christmas, with the three wise men (Orion's Belt) pointing to it below the star in the east (Sirius). And you can see the three wise men kneeling at the manger as well. Further north, for example in Europe or Canada, the manger is not visible.

I just read an article by Kenneth Humphries 'The Birthing of A God Man'. His factual information regarding the literal absurdity and contradiction between the Matthew and Luke accounts of the nativity of Christ is useful and interesting. However, his approach seems to me typical of a mocking superior tone that is common in such writing, and that I suspect is unhelpful in speaking to a broader audience in a way that will deepen public understanding.

Humphries does not even address the possibility that the nativity stories are allegory, and were intended as such by the authors. Showing that they are literally absurd seems to be asserted as a significant contribution, with the unstated implication that if we could only shift from faith to reason, from myth to logic, from religion to science, we could save the world.

It would be far better if Humphries and similar minded writers took the absurdity as a starting point to ask why these stories were written, and whether they could have a hidden meaning that would help to explain their ongoing allure, helping to rebase the myth on empirical observation and logic rather than just seeking to discard it as primitive junk.

In this and other threads looking at the unseen story of the biggest constellation in the sky, Argo, I explore this problem by examining how the hermetic method 'as above so below' can explain the nativity stories. It is immediately obvious, once properly considered, that these stories are star myths. The idea of the incarnation of Christ is that observed processes in the cosmos are reflected on earth. The Luke and Matthew birth stories embed patterns that are readily visible in the sky from Israel (but not from Europe). Just as the Greeks placed their mythic stories such as Perseus and Andromeda, Hercules and others in the sky, the Bible stories of the wise men, the star and the manger are visible in the southern sky, at midnight on Christmas.

Once we accept the hypothesis that hidden cosmic meaning of the Bible stories was concealed by the authors as a secret mystery, we can start to appreciate the scale of intellectual degradation involved in the Christian forgetting and suppression of its origins. There is no point engaging with dogmatists who are mired in literal delusion, as most will go to the grave holding their fervent fantasies. But a constructive agenda remains to ask what the stories really mean, in a way that is compatible with modern scientific knowledge. Humphries seems to be scared to explore this bigger cosmic story because it is safer for him to seek approval from his friends for a purely secular agenda.

Looking at the status and meaning of the manger story in Luke 2, the text has three mentions of manger: "she gave birth to her firstborn, a son. She wrapped him in cloths and placed him in a manger, because there was no guest room available for them....This will be a sign to you: You will find a baby wrapped in cloths and lying in a manger.”... So they hurried off and found Mary and Joseph, and the baby, who was lying in the manger."

A manger is an animal's feed trough, so the presence of animals at the birth of Christ is implicit in Luke's account, although the Bible does not mention a stable or animals. So, we find the typology of the birth story of Jesus in the wooden animal vessel presents a restatement of God's earlier covenant with humanity, where the savior Noah is surrounded by animals on his ark.

A key issue in assessing the possible Jesus-Noah link is the hidden question of how myths reflect stories about the stars. As I stated before, the manger and ark appear to me to be found in the sky in the constellation Argo. Phillip Coppens, in his superb book The Canopus Revelation, examines the problem of how Argo and its brightest star Canopus have been ignored in mythic studies, apparently due to their invisibility from Europe. Canopus, the second brightest star in the sky after Sirius, is known in Arabic as Suhail, a name sumilar to the Egyptian Sahu that has conventionally been assigned to Orion, though there is no strong evidence for the Orion link. It appears that the Egyptian Sahu is actually Canopus. Argo, the largest constellation in the sky, conventionally has fifty stars, the same number as the rowers in Jason's Argo and the Ark of Gilgamesh. Argo is also cited as the location of Osiris. In Star Lore: Their Names and Meaning, quoted at
http://www.constellationsofwords.com/stars/Canopus.html RA Allen says "the constellation Argo Navis was associated on the Nile with the great god Osiris, so its great star became the Star of Osiris."

Coppens' theme is that the neglect of Canopus and Argo indicates a deep forgetfullness in study of myth. This all appears to be fruitful material for historical psychoanalysis, to work out the reasons and scope for such large scale amnesia, similar to the question of how the actual origins of the Christ myth were forgotten. We know that much stellar lore was lost due to traditions of oral transmission in mystery cults which were easy prey for the imperial bigots. In efforts to reconstruct ancient star lore, we have to use a range of methods, including extant records, direct astronomical observation, and interpretation of apparent links between stories, based on similar ideas and purpose. Applying such coordinated methods to analysis of the manger story, the link to Noah, Osiris and Argo appears strong. When we seek confirmation by actually looking at the sky, something most moderns are loath to do, we find the deck of the ark immediately below the star in the east, viewed from the three stars of Orion's Belt. The similarity of the manger myth to the ark story, and their presence in the sky, is compelling.

In assessing Luke's account, we know that much material is midrashic, reworking Old Testament myth. Here at the beginning of his Gospel we find a midrash on the flood, in a story that also has strong apparent resonance to the Egyptian vision of Argo and Canopus. My view is that this material is neglected because it is so embarrassing to recognise the suppression of non-European vision that was central to the construction of Christianity.

Nobel Laureate Doris Lessing says in her epic satire Canopus in Argos that the primary crime in the fallen world is to look at the sky, and she explains how miscreants against this taboo are weighted down by loads on their heads so they can only look at the earth. It is a parable for the sickness of our society, with the pervasive inability to see anything bigger or older or more real than its convenient fantasies.

If we go to Egypt and look at Argo at Christmas midnight from a riverboat, we see the ship of the heavens perfectly reflected in the Nile River, as above so below, as the images of the stars, the 50 Argonauts who also accompanied Jason and Gilgamesh, twinkle at us from the calm surface of the river of life.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 12:31 pm 
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I wonder how Robert Buvual would react if you struck up a correspondence with him about the above post? Maybe he'd incorporate the nativity scene complete with Argo into one of his upcoming programs or videos. This is right up his alley and corresponds to everything else he's been doing. That's the kind of shows that should be airing around Christmas time to compete with all of the other Christmas programming.

_________________
The Jesus Mythicist Creed:
The "Jesus Christ" of the New Testament is a fictional composite of characters, real and mythical. A composite of multiple "people" is no one.

The celestial Origins of Religious Belief
ZG Part 1
Jesus: Hebrew Human or Mythical Messiah?


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 2:12 pm 
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Tat Tvam Asi wrote:
I had a nice clear view of the "Three Kings" rising in the east last night. It's cool because every since I caught wind of the nativity in the stars I can sit back and point the nativity out to whoever I happen to be standing outside with. And no one even tries to contest it when we're standing there looking right up at the stars, it's way too obvious to try and contest. I know I've told my mom and sister before, but they didn't really 'get it' until I explained the nativity last night while out by the fire.

Hey Tat Tvam Asi, I wish that entire conversation was on video so that others could see and hear all that.

On a side note: Santa vs. Jesus

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2013 Astrotheology Calendar
The Mythicist Position
Christ in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection
Stellar House Publishing at Youtube


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 4:14 pm 
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That's a good idea FTL. But the last time I tried to hold a basic camcorder on Orion and Sirius rising I had a black screen with no star light filtering through and you couldn't see Orion at all. I guess I need astronomy specific gear to do it right.

_________________
The Jesus Mythicist Creed:
The "Jesus Christ" of the New Testament is a fictional composite of characters, real and mythical. A composite of multiple "people" is no one.

The celestial Origins of Religious Belief
ZG Part 1
Jesus: Hebrew Human or Mythical Messiah?


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 10:35 pm 
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Much of this material is easier to depict using astronomy software such as Skygazer 4.5.

Here is a picture I have just made of the Ship Argo sailing on the Celestial Ocean - the Milky Way Galaxy.

This picture, using traditional constellation diagrams, contains an abundance of Biblical images.

Argo was garbled by the Greeks, and actually sails in the reverse direction from the diagram, with its bright star Canopus at the prow. But nonetheless, the Greeks managed to place the keel, deck and mast in the correct place, and here we see the deck in the same position as if Canopus was the prow rather than the rudder. We also see that the deck is in the position of the living quarters on Noah's Ark, where the coffin of Osiris was also held to float down the Nile on his barque, providing the mythic typology for the manger of Christ pointed to from Orion via Sirius. The unmarked constellation to the right of Argo is Columba the Dove, illustrating how the Bible story of the flood is told in the stars. We also see how the three wise men in Orion at the right look past the star in the east (Sirius) to the manger, seen as a midrash of Noah's Ark. The fifty stars of Argo, representing the fifty sailors of Jason and Gilgamesh, are readily countable. All this material is invisible from Europe and was lost to history.

The zodiac ecliptic is seen from bottom left to top right, showing Sagittarius, Scorpio, Libra, Virgo, Leo, Cancer, Gemini and Taurus, crossing the equator at the end of Virgo. The Milky Way is the circular band, with the ship at the south. The celestial equator travels through the eagle, the snake-wrestler, the virgin, and across to the belt of Orion.

At the top we see how the dragon gave his 'seat and power and authority' to the Bear-Lion-Leopard, as explained in Revelation 13, with the shift of the north pole from its previous location in the constellation of the dragon to its present position in the bear beneath the lion, among the leopard spots of the sky. We also see how the dragon covering a third of the sky is on the same ecliptic longitude as the virgin Virgo, illustrating the story in Revelation 12 that "the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born." At the time of Christ, the September equinox point, now approaching Leo, was moving into the virgin, so from the point of view of the north pole, the dragon did actually stand before the woman who was giving birth. It seems the writers predicted that Christ would be devoured for an Age, and would only be understood once the equinoxes reach the lion-man axis. This reading matches precisely to the interpretation that through the Age of Pisces the church would entirely fail to understand the real cosmic meaning of the Christ story, which would only become clear when the equinoxes had precessed into Leo and Aquarius.

A friend recently mentioned to me a line in Revelation 11:18 that I had overlooked: "thy wrath is come, ... and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth." The great evil is described in the Bible as to destroy the earth. It may be that the only way to save the earth from its destroyers is to rekindle the cosmic vision of ancient myth, in order to reconnect humanity to the cosmos.

Attachment:
Ship Argo on River Milky Way.gif
Ship Argo on River Milky Way.gif [ 197.96 KiB | Viewed 1170 times ]


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 11:15 pm 
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Quote:
A friend recently mentioned to me a line in Revelation 11:18 that I had overlooked: "thy wrath is come, ... and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth." The great evil is described in the Bible as to destroy the earth. It may be that the only way to save the earth from its destroyers is to rekindle the cosmic vision of ancient myth, in order to reconnect humanity to the cosmos.


That's an interesting verse that doesn't really get mentioned very much but should get mentioned all the time.

_________________
The Jesus Mythicist Creed:
The "Jesus Christ" of the New Testament is a fictional composite of characters, real and mythical. A composite of multiple "people" is no one.

The celestial Origins of Religious Belief
ZG Part 1
Jesus: Hebrew Human or Mythical Messiah?


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 5:19 pm 
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That's right, I do remember you telling me that last year. Here's a website that was recommended to me. It's for astronomers filming at night time, Night Skies Network.

Tat Tvam Asi wrote:
That's a good idea FTL. But the last time I tried to hold a basic camcorder on Orion and Sirius rising I had a black screen with no star light filtering through and you couldn't see Orion at all. I guess I need astronomy specific gear to do it right.

_________________
2013 Astrotheology Calendar
The Mythicist Position
Christ in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection
Stellar House Publishing at Youtube


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