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PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 8:03 pm 
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Rather than start another thread what source evidence do we have that Horus had 12 Disciples?


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 9:59 pm 
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There's a 20 page chapter on that subject in Christ in Egypt starting at the bottom of page 269. Here's an image from Egyptologist Eric Hornung's book on the 12 at Acharya's description page for CIE for all to see. There are many more images of "the twelve" in the book.

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Quote:
Horus enthroned before the Twelve, Seventh Hour of the Amduat. (Erik Hornung, The Ancient Egyptian Books of the Afterlife, 48)

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 8:11 pm 
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OK..............


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 10:59 pm 
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Has anyone really done any research on the Horus/Jesus myth?
The gospels in the Bible were written in the 1st and 2nd century ce.
The idea of Jesus being Horus was first thought up in the 4th century ce.
There seems to be a problem with who stole from who.
The story of Horus was written in 3,000 bc. and no one seems to find a problem with that.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 1:34 am 
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jwest wrote:
Has anyone really done any research on the Horus/Jesus myth?
The gospels in the Bible were written in the 1st and 2nd century ce.
The idea of Jesus being Horus was first thought up in the 4th century ce.
There seems to be a problem with who stole from who.
The story of Horus was written in 3,000 bc. and no one seems to find a problem with that.

Again, you don't have a clue what you're talking about. "Has anyone really done any research on the Horus/Jesus myth?!" If you were actually capable of reading anything, you would know that MANY people have done research on the Horus/Jesus myth, including Acharya, with her nearly 600-page book on the subject.

But your knowledge of this subject is so poor that you don't even know the first thing about the mythicist case vis-a-vis Horus.

Please, stop pretending to be some great scholar - you are not. You can hardly put a sentence together, and you don't seem to know much about anything, except how to brag about qualifications you don't even have.

Once more, you're bringing down the quality of this forum, jwest, and I'm getting tired of seeing your illiterate and useless garbage in here.

ISN'T THERE ANYONE INTELLIGENT AND WELL EDUCATED ON THIS PLANET WHO CAN DISCUSS THESE SUBJECTS?

What the hell are we doing with the likes of this cretin? Wow. I'm just so sick of it. Thank goodness Tat, Robert and others are around here. Otherwise, with idiots like this guy, I'd feel very alone here.

jwest troll thread

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Christ in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 1:13 pm 
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Jwest, you've come in here aggressively trying to make assertions that just don't wash with respect to the scholarship Murdock has put together in CiE. If you want to discuss these Egyptian and Christian parallel issues honestly then please go to your copy of CiE and open it up to "The 12 Followers" chapter, for instance, and provide the page numbers and specific scholarly citations contained therein with which you disagree. If you have the book in your possession then that should be simple enough for you to do. The chapter starts on page 261 so we can pick it up from right there and move forward if you're intentions of discussing "The 12 Followers" are serious.

_________________
The Jesus Mythicist Creed:
The "Jesus Christ" of the New Testament is a fictional composite of characters, real and mythical. A composite of multiple "people" is no one.

The celestial Origins of Religious Belief
ZG Part 1
Jesus: Hebrew Human or Mythical Messiah?


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 5:18 am 
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Freethinkaluva22 wrote:
jwest wrote:
Has anyone really done any research on the Horus/Jesus myth?
The gospels in the Bible were written in the 1st and 2nd century ce.
The idea of Jesus being Horus was first thought up in the 4th century ce.
There seems to be a problem with who stole from who.
The story of Horus was written in 3,000 bc. and no one seems to find a problem with that.

Again, you don't have a clue what you're talking about. "Has anyone really done any research on the Horus/Jesus myth?!" If you were actually capable of reading anything, you would know that MANY people have done research on the Horus/Jesus myth, including Acharya, with her nearly 600-page book on the subject.
But your knowledge of this subject is so poor that you don't even know the first thing about the mythicist case vis-a-vis Horus.
Please, stop pretending to be some great scholar - you are not. You can hardly put a sentence together, and you don't seem to know much about anything, except how to brag about qualifications you don't even have.
Once more, you're bringing down the quality of this forum, jwest, and I'm getting tired of seeing your illiterate and useless garbage in here.
ISN'T THERE ANYONE INTELLIGENT AND WELL EDUCATED ON THIS PLANET WHO CAN DISCUSS THESE SUBJECTS?
What the hell are we doing with the likes of this cretin? Wow. I'm just so sick of it. Thank goodness Tat, Robert and others are around here. Otherwise, with idiots like this guy, I'd feel very alone here.

jwest troll thread

ftl, I've noticed that apologists, like jwest, are effective in sowing spurious doubts about mythicism. Because their own views are absurd, based on an obsolete magical cosmology, they are unable to engage directly but use questions such as those raised here to give the illusion of debate where dispassionate analysis shows that their orthodox views make no sense.

I'm now reading The Jesus Mysteries by Freke and Gandy. It is an excellent scholarly analysis of the relation between gnosticism and orthodoxy in the context of pagan mythology. One theme that aligns closely to Acharya's work is their observation that Osiris-Dionysus was the saviour figure for the Hellenistic world for several centuries before Christ. While they focus more on Osiris than Horus, the approach of setting early Christianity in its cultural context is similar to CIE.

What strikes me as the core here is that apologists are emotionally opposed to the idea that rational understanding of the Bible is possible. Ironically, this is a view they share with materialist atheists, for opposite reasons. Christian irrational faith was so successful in building the church as a powerful social institution that they find a challenge that steps on their terrain insufferable. Atheism doesn't matter to fundamentalists, because Dawkins et al can be dismissed for their emotional attack on faith.

Mythicism presents a more difficult target for the apologists. It accepts that religion is important for human identity, but argues that rational explanation of the Bible is possible. This mythicist argument presents a threat to orthodoxy, but is hard to understand for several reasons. Christian brainwashing has been so successful that most victims are unaware they have been lied to, mythicism requires knowledge of comparative mythology, and it leads to a vision of astrotheology that modernity sees as fatalistic and repugnant. Astrotheology, the logical consequence of the mythicist analysis of the Bible, is viewed with emotional hostility by all of science, religion and astrology, precisely because it sees the validity in each of these disciplines. Promoting astrotheology is a bit like Jesus carrying his cross. It brings a commitment to truth that is ahead of its time, leaving the pioneers in a rather lonely situation.

Here, the question of Horus and the twelve, requires an understanding of how the twelve signs of the zodiac are at the base of terrestrial cosmology, informing the archetypes of both Judeo-Christian and Egyptian myth. This cyclic argument is viewed with pure bigotry by those who hold to a linear view of the soul. But the problem is that cyclic philosophy is by and large not particularly rigorous. It remains an intriguing philosophical problem how to set the astrological vision of the signs within a scientific framework, that in turn will help to explain the origins of Christian symbols.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 3:36 pm 
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Quote:
The Twelve Followers

As is the case with other major characteristics of the Egyptian gods that have been associated with Jesus, the claim that Horus had 12 "disciples" cannot be found easily in modern encyclopedias or mainstream books. In reality, the association of the sun god with "the Twelve" in a number of other cultures, including the 12 Olympian gods of Greece, as well as those of the Romans, along with the 12 adventures of Gilgamesh, the 12 labors of Hercules and the 12 Tribes of Israel, all of which symbolize the months of the year and / or the zodiacal signs. (Jackson, MGC, 93; Frazer, FOTS, 50. See Exodus 39:9-14 "...they made the breast plate... And they set in it four rows of stones... And the stones were according to the names of the children of Israel, twelve...according to the twelve tribes." As Josephus says (Antiquities, 3.8) : "And for the twelve stones, whether we understand by them the months, or whether we understand the like number of signs of that circle which the Greeks call the zodiac, we shall not be mistaken in their meaning." (Josephus/Whiston, 75.) Earlier than Josephus, Philo ("On the life of Moses," 12) had made the same comments regarding Moses: "Then the twelve stones on the breast, which are not like one another in colour, and which are divided into four rows of three stones in each, what else can they be emblems of, except of the circle of the zodiac?" (Philo/Duke, 99.)

The same can be said of the Christian Twelve, as apostles and disciples of Jesus, who also have been depicted as signs in the circle of the zodiac, including, as we have seen, by the Venerable Bede in the seventh century, with their zodiacal significance extending back much further, to as early as the second century. So too do we find "the Twelve" in Egypt in a variety of places, including groupings of gods and goddesses. Indeed, in addition to the commonly depicted groups of eight or nine Egyptian gods, the latter being styled "the Ennead," there were other companies of 12, as we have seen in the nativity scene and as is to be expected from a culture so focused on time and astronomy, since the number 12 generally symbolizes hours and months.
p. 261- 262

She goes on to elaborate on the 12 depicted with Horus and why exactly there would be 12 in the first place (as seen in the image FTL posted already).
Image
Quote:
Horus enthroned before the Twelve, Seventh Hour of the Amduat. (Erik Hornung, The Ancient Egyptian Books of the Afterlife, 48)

It's obvious that in a solar religion, such as the Egyptian, the 12 signs of the zodiac play a role in the mythology. Equally obvious is that the Christian use of "the 12" is designed along the very same lines with Jesus representing the sun and the disciples the 12 signs of the zodiac. And while this in depth information isn't readily declared openly in basic online encyclopedia articles (at this point in time any ways) it has been declared openly in CiE for all to read, research, contemplate and consider. So to turn a blind eye to reading the book is to turn a blind eye to the very sources which have been demanded by these self same apologetic and skeptical atheist types. All they have to do is read the book to get the information that they have been lacking in their shallow search attempts and so prematurely claim "doesn't exist". I assume that as time goes on and these debates rage on the outcome will eventually amount to seeing basic encyclopedia articles on the internet and abroad that do start to elaborate more on these Egyptian and Christian parallels so that people in the future will grow up knowing these things and the censorship of this information dating back to the dark ages will finally began to subside.

_________________
The Jesus Mythicist Creed:
The "Jesus Christ" of the New Testament is a fictional composite of characters, real and mythical. A composite of multiple "people" is no one.

The celestial Origins of Religious Belief
ZG Part 1
Jesus: Hebrew Human or Mythical Messiah?


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 5:34 pm 
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Very well said by both Tat and Robert

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The Mythicist Position
Christ in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection
Stellar House Publishing at Youtube


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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2012 12:05 pm 
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For ease of convenience I'm compiling many of the most relevant threads on the topic of the twelve since there are several across different section of the forum:

The Twelve in the Bible and Ancient Mythology

When did the twelve months 1st appear?

Horus and the 12 Disciples

Horus and the Twelve (12)

The 12 columns in the vestibule of Temple of Horus at Edfu

The Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs

Mithra: The Pagan Christ

The Zodiac in Leonardo Da Vinci's Last Supper

_________________
2013 Astrotheology Calendar
The Mythicist Position
Christ in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection
Stellar House Publishing at Youtube


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