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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:55 am 
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Tat Tvam Asi wrote:
the top is moving left to right and right to left as it wobbles around in a circle.
It is worthwhile to focus on the astronomy of the Great Year in order to have a precise and accurate understanding of the celestial dynamics. The shape of the wobble path is circular, produced by the constant gravitational tug on the spare tire at earth's equator by the sun and moon. Taking Orion as a marker of the Great Year provides one description, but there is no greater change in direction as Orion passes the solstice point than at any other point of the circle. The appearance of a sudden change of direction is an artifact produced by setting the grid references. We could equally look at the rise and fall of stars in any constellation by reference to the celestial equator, and all will have different timings for culmination.
Quote:
Why do I get the feeling that the Dragon and Beast refer to Draco and the Bear (Ursa Major)?
Let's focus on Revelation 13:2: "And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority."

There is no leopard among the stars, but perhaps like the 5000 men of the loaves and fishes story we have here a reference to the spots of the leopard, ie the stars themselves. If we consider the bear of this story to be Ursa Minor, the current location of the North Celestial Pole, or Ursa Major as you suggest, we also see the lion to be Leo, and the dragon as Draco, as shown in the following diagrams.

In the first diagram we see that over the Ages of Pisces and Aries the pole has precessed anti-clockwise through the Little Bear, and for Ages before that the pole precessed through the Dragon. If we consider the period roughly since 4300 BC as the time of the fall, we see that for the first two thousand years the pole was in the constellation of the dragon, while for the last four thousand years the pole has been in the constellation of the bear. We may say from this analogy that the dragon, ie the Age of Taurus when the North Pole was in Draco, gave his power and seat and authority to the Bear/Lion/Leopard, ie the Ages of Aries and Pisces when the Pole has traversed Ursa Minor.

The north ecliptic pole, the central point of this diagram, is the spot around which the celestial pole rotates over the period of the Great Year. In 2788 BC the pole star was Thuban in Draco, and in 12,200 BC, in the Golden Age, the pole star was Vega in Lyra. By the end of the Age of Aquarius the north celestial pole will have precessed to reach the crown of Cepheus.

A reading of this shift of the pole against the story of Jason and the Argonauts can see Jason stealing past the protecting dragon to get the Golden Fleece as his reaching back in time through the age of the dragon to the golden age when Vega was the Pole Star.
Attachment:
North Ecliptic Pole Stars.gif
North Ecliptic Pole Stars.gif [ 102.29 KiB | Viewed 3306 times ]

Zooming out to set the north ecliptic pole against the zodiac and the Milky Way, we have the following sky clock, again with the north celestial pole moving anti-clockwise around the diagram once per Great Year. Here we see the zodiac nodes at left and right where the ecliptic crosses the celestial equator, up into tropical Aries = sidereal Pisces on the left and down into tropical Libra = sidereal Virgo on the right of the picture.

Against the imagery of the bear and lion in Rev 13:2, we clearly see Leo and Ursa Major as the upper and lower stars observed in the sky at the time of the fall in 4300 BC at the dawn of the Age of Taurus. The Dragon Draco has passed his seat as lode star to the beast with mouth of a lion and feet of a bear and starry spots of the leopard.

The Milky Way bisects the sky. Considering the Great Year cycle like a Day of Brahma, with day and night over one Great Year rather than the 4.32 billion years of tradition, we have dawn and dusk at the moments when the equinoxes cross the Milky Way, at the top and bottom of the picture, and midnight at the left and midday at the right.

The current opposition of Jupiter and Uranus to Saturn, in square to Pluto, can also be seen here as marking the turning points of the equinoxes and the December solstice.

Orion is just out of the top of the picture past Taurus. As the line from the north ecliptic pole through the north celestial pole approaches the horns of the bull, Orion's Belt will reach its highest point at the dawn of the Age of Aquarius.
Attachment:
North Ecliptic Pole Stars Milky Way Zodiac.gif
North Ecliptic Pole Stars Milky Way Zodiac.gif [ 144.74 KiB | Viewed 3306 times ]


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 1:48 pm 
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Robert Tulip wrote:
Let's focus on Revelation 13:2: "And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority."

There is no leopard among the stars, but perhaps like the 5000 men of the loaves and fishes story we have here a reference to the spots of the leopard, ie the stars themselves. If we consider the bear of this story to be Ursa Minor, the current location of the North Celestial Pole, or Ursa Major as you suggest, we also see the lion to be Leo, and the dragon as Draco, as shown in the following diagrams.

I was just reading about the goddess Seshat, wife of Thoth, and "the stretching of the cord" ritual involved in laying out the base of the monuments according to the targeted stars. On pages 22 and 24 Bauval writes:
Quote:
The Egypt Code
At any rate, the goddess Seshat is always shown dressed in a leopard skin which clings tight to her body...The yellow spots on the leopard skin are sometimes shown as stars, apparently symbolizing the leopards and Seshat's ability to see in the dark. On her head she wears a golden tiara with an antenna-like stem that has a seven pointed star or rosette at the top. ... Such an association with the sky and Seshat's royal duties is also evident in the 'stretching of the chord' ceremony, since, as we shall see, this entailed observing the motion and position of the circumpolar stars.

And on page 13 Bauval writes:
Quote:
The plough, strickly speaking, is not a constellation. Some astronomers will insist on calling it an asterism because it's seven bright stars are part of the bigger constellation we call the Great Bear or Ursa Major. But to any casual observer it is only those seven stars which stand out, with their distinct pattern of a plough or dipper. ...It was one of three distinct constellations, along with Ursa Minor (the little bear) and Draconis (the dragon), that, in ancient times, revolved perpetually around the north pole of the sky like a wheel.

So here in Revelation we can see how this Egyptian focus on the northern sky around the pole star is being related. The book of Revelation appears to be an old Egyptian and Zoroastrian drama aimed at ushering in the age of Aries and was passed down and Judaized and Christianized during the common era. That's been pointed out in Murdocks books and posted here on the forums repeatedly. The symbolism has to do with the goings on of the northern sky and the leopard may well be a stellar reference to Seshat, goddess of astronomy, architecture, record keeping, and so on. Seshat studies those particular stars and sets the foundations, along with the Pharoh, according to the desired target in northern sky - sometimes true north, sometimes otherwise. The step pyramid being offset from true north, seems to be aimed at the plough or dipper which is offset from true north. Bauval argues that this was intentional on the part of the builders on page 21:
Quote:
There are only two realistic explanations for this large deviation: either the surveyors were not interested in true north, or, more likely in my view, they were aiming at something else in the sky that was at 4 degrees 35' east from true north. My gut feeling was that the second explanation was probably the right one. Experience had shown time and again that nothing the pyramid builders did was left to chance.


But for my purpose, this merely caught my attention and brought me immediately back to Revelation because I was starting to see that there is a correspondence going on here to add to the growing list. And I wonder if the reference to "false prophet" has something to do with something being aligned to true north or not true north, as in aligned to false north perhaps? It's a stretch but it's something that occured to me as a possiblity.
Robert Tulip wrote:
In the first diagram we see that over the Ages of Pisces and Aries the pole has precessed anti-clockwise through the Little Bear, and for Ages before that the pole precessed through the Dragon. If we consider the period roughly since 4300 BC as the time of the fall, we see that for the first two thousand years the pole was in the constellation of the dragon, while for the last four thousand years the pole has been in the constellation of the bear. We may say from this analogy that the dragon, ie the Age of Taurus when the North Pole was in Draco, gave his power and seat and authority to the Bear/Lion/Leopard, ie the Ages of Aries and Pisces when the Pole has traversed Ursa Minor.

This is pretty interesting. Just as "time, times, and half a time" reflects on the entire lower 1/3 of the Great Year - the darkest "times" of the Yuga cycle - so too does the Dragon, Beast, and False Prophet appear to do likewise, which, makes perfect sense. And the lake of burning sulfur is what? These contellations precessing through the milky way? I don't really see anything else that would fit an aquatic lake type of reference aside from the milky way, which is bright and perhaps termed a lake of burning sulfur in this instance. And that would make sense too, as in suggesting that all of the old ways from the lower Yuga periods, along with the dammed from those periods, would be thrown off into the lake of burning Sulfur and 'left behind' as the earth wobbles its way towards the higher ages where knowledge (light) rules supreme...

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The Jesus Mythicist Creed:
The "Jesus Christ" of the New Testament is a fictional composite of characters, real and mythical. A composite of multiple "people" is no one.

The celestial Origins of Religious Belief
ZG Part 1
Jesus: Hebrew Human or Mythical Messiah?


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 2:19 pm 
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Did anyone else notice how, when he points out that the temple of Abu Ghoreb aligns with where the sun crosses the milky way, there is a sun altar that forms a cross?

Image

The quadrate cross-

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadrate_%28heraldry%29


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 3:18 pm 
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No, but thank you for pointing us in the right direction. 8)

I was recently reading through another point that corresponds here:
Quote:
Revelation 2
To the church in Ephesus
1"To the angel of the church in Ephesus write:
These are the words of him who holds the seven stars in his right hand and walks among the seven golden lampstands:

Another reference to the circumpolar stars.
Quote:
The Egypt Code
At any rate, the goddess Seshat is always shown dressed in a leopard skin which clings tight to her body...The yellow spots on the leopard skin are sometimes shown as stars, apparently symbolizing the leopards and Seshat's ability to see in the dark. On her head she wears a golden tiara with an antenna-like stem that has a seven pointed star or rosette at the top. ... Such an association with the sky and Seshat's royal duties is also evident in the 'stretching of the chord' ceremony, since, as we shall see, this entailed observing the motion and position of the circumpolar stars.

The plough, strickly speaking, is not a constellation. Some astronomers will insist on calling it an asterism because it's seven bright stars are part of the bigger constellation we call the Great Bear or Ursa Major. But to any casual observer it is only those seven stars which stand out, with their distinct pattern of a plough or dipper. ...It was one of three distinct constellations, along with Ursa Minor (the little bear) and Draconis (the dragon), that, in ancient times, revolved perpetually around the north pole of the sky like a wheel.

Back to Robert, My point here is that the Egyptians had clued in on the age of Leo (lots of Lions in the above cross pics :wink: ) as the beginning of their Great Year, Zep Tepi. This is when an observer can see Orion reach it's minimum on the meridian. The stars moves down, stop, and then move in the opposite direction. And the Nabta Playa stone circle as related by Thomas Brophy's "Origin Map" also relays the same way of following precession via Orion's meridian journey as a point of reference. Both the Giza necropolis and the Nabta Playa correspond in this way and they both appear to be oriented around Zep Tepi and the "last time", which we are approaching now. The Leo-Aquarius axis is relevant in terms of looking up and observing the effect of the earths wobble on the visible stars. There is a change in direction of this wobbling effect during the beginning of the age of Aquarius, as we're discussing. It doesn't happen in Pisces. Pisces is just the case of taking the annual zodiac which is oriented around annual spring and reversing it for precession. The stars don't reach their maximum on the meridian, and hence the earths wobble doesn't reach it's extreme according to astronomer priest observers on the ground looking up at the stars and following their movements. This all accounts for why the writers of the New Testament would have bothered to include an allegory about a first and second coming that closely corresponds to the first and second ages of precession in the first place. The official Great Year had started anew as of the beginning of the common era and they wanted to celebrate that fact in the mythos. But the earths wobble had not caused the stars to reach their maximum on the meridian yet. That wouldn't come until the following age. So all of the "age" / Aion references easily point an initiate forward through time to the age of Aquarius when this significant and observable change in the earths axial wobble will take place, and it is suggested that the real hard core changes on the earth take place around the same time. And it also seems that in Revelation we find leftovers from the Egyptian religion that deal with the circumpolar stars in relation to the Great Year as well. All of it oriented around "The Last Time" which is coming up in the Aquarius-Leo axis.

I guess the idea here is that if you believe that the movements of precession are engrained into the DNA of all life on earth, per evolution over the vast amount of Great Years that have gone by during our evolution, well then perhaps the Egyptians use of Orion on the meridian represents a more accurate time when life on earth actually observes a change in direction via the back ground sky. I'm just saying. This could fit into your overall theory on precession and it's possible effect on the evolution of life on earth. The ancients seems to feel that major change is to be expected leading into both the stellar minimum and maximum points during the precession which hinge around the Leo-Aquarius and Aquarius-Leo axis. It's possible that they could have been onto something valid. Or maybe not. But time will tell either way...

For the sake of other readers I'll post some of the material on Revelation that appears to have originally been an Egyptian and Zoroastrian drama which was translated to Greek during the common era and Christianized in the process coming into the cannon as a late, and disputed edition in the early years:
Quote:
The Book of Revelation is Egyptian and Zoroastrian

One can find certain allegorical place names such as "Jerusalem" and "Israel" in the Book of Revelation. Massey has stated that Revelation, rather than having been written by any apostle called John during the 1st Century C.E., is a very ancient text that dates to the beginning of this era of history, i.e. possibly as early as 4,000 years ago.86 Massey asserts that Revelation relates the Mithraic legend of Zarathustra/Zoroaster.87 Hotema says of this mysterious book, which has baffled mankind for centuries: "It is expressed in terms of creative phenomena; its hero is not Jesus but the Sun of the Universe, its heroine is the Moon; and all its other characters are Planets, Stars and Constellations; while its stage-setting comprises the Sky, the Earth, the Rivers and the Sea." The common form of this text has been attributed by Churchward to Horus's scribe, Aan, whose name has been passed down to us as "John."88

...As Pike says, "The apocolypse or Revelations, by whomever written, belongs to the orient and extreme antiquity. It is far older than itself." Higgins concurs:

"That the work of the apocolypse of St. John...is of great antiquity is clearly proved by the fact that it only makes the year 360 days long - the same length that it is made in the third book of Genesis."

In fact, Revelation records the mythos of the precession of the equinoxes, or the "Great Year", and was apparently written to usher in the age of Aries, which began around 4,400 years ago. As Churchward says:

"The drama appears as tremendous in the book of Revelation, because the period ending is on the scale of one Great Year. It is not the ending of the world, but of a Great Year of the world."

Churchward continues:

"The book is and always has been inexplicable, because it was based on the symbolism of the Egyptian Astronomical Mythology without the gnosis, or "meaning which hath wisdom" that is absolutely necessary for an explanation of its subject matter; and because the debris of the ancient wisdom has been turned to account as data for pre-Christian prophecy that was supposed to have its fulfillment in Christian history."
The Christ Conspiracy


And that's one good reason for finding all of these Egyptian astrotheological references that point to the circumpolar stars which are a part of the Giza necropolis and the effort to bring what is above, below. The very same is happening in terms of the New Jerusalem having astronomical oriented dimensions. It's about a city modeled after the stars and the Great Year as its foundation. The importance of the Aquarius-Leo axis as the second age of the Great Year falls right into place. The second Greek age represents the 'end' of the descending half of the Great Year to the Egyptians. So we find two points of interest in the NT aimed at first, the end of the Greek oriented precession cycle, and secondly the end of the older Egyptian oriented cycle. Both can be found in the gospels and Revelation. Here we are grasping at the gnosis which is necessary for uncovering the meaning of the strange symbolism. That's why I like to follow what Bauval is doing by studying the monuments with respect to astronomy software. The monuments have the key to decoding more and more of what this old Christian interpolated astrotheological drama is talking about in terms of precession. It led to you uncovering the river of life as the milky way in due time. The allegory's laid out just like the Giza necroplis as discovered by Bauval with the river as portrayed on the ground mirroring the milky way above...

_________________
The Jesus Mythicist Creed:
The "Jesus Christ" of the New Testament is a fictional composite of characters, real and mythical. A composite of multiple "people" is no one.

The celestial Origins of Religious Belief
ZG Part 1
Jesus: Hebrew Human or Mythical Messiah?


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 3:33 am 
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Dear Tat et al

I am now reading The Secret Doctrine by HP Blavatsky. Written in about 1890, it synthesises much of the theosophical vision of the nineteenth century from visionary writers such as Gerald Massey. Blavatsky was incautious in challenging scientific orthodoxy, and as a result her reputation suffered badly. The challenge now in reading such work is to set aside the errors and focus on the insights. Major insights in theosophy, related to our discussion here of Zep Tepi as the Egyptian framework of time, include that the Abrahamic faiths are a fragmentary reflection of older deeper wisdom, and that texts have to be analysed for allegorical rather than literal meaning. The Secret Doctrine contains numerous resonances to the work that Acharya is now rediscovering.

I was very pleased Tat that you raised the question of the nature of the beast of Revelation. The description at Revelation 13:2 makes such a clear and informative linkage between the precession and the Biblical code that it could well prove decisive in shifting the paradigm of Biblical studies to include astrotheology. The creature like a leopard with bear feet and lion mouth describes exactly the night sky viewed with the north pole as the base, shifting with precession. The dragon who gave this creature “his power, seat and authority" corresponds exactly to the constellation Draco the dragon, where the pole star was seated for thousands of years until about 2000 BC. We have here a precise and simple description of the precession of the north pole over the course of the Great Year, during the period of human history. The wobble of the earth inscribes a circle in the stars, with the North Celestial Pole (the pole of the earth’s axis) rotating about the North Ecliptic Pole (the pole of the sun’s axis) once per Great Year. The gift of the dragon’s power, seat and authority to the spotted bear-lion described in Revelation 13:2 is the movement of the celestial pole from the dragon into the little bear. The alignment of the sun’s pole, the earth’s pole, the great bear and the lion occurred at the time the Bible designates as the fall, the dawn of the Age of Taurus in about 4300 BC.

As we have discussed before, the tribulation, the 3.5 periods described as ‘times, time and half a time’ or 42 months, describes a period of about 7000 years of human history, the bottom third of the Great Year. We can now see the tribulation begins at the time of the beast, the moment when the bear-lion in the stars aligned to the north poles at the fall from grace. It therefore makes sense to identify the beast with the tribulation.

Over the last 4000 years the pole has precessed through the bear. With the culmination of Orion's Belt, the exact alignment of the pole to Polaris is another marker of the dawn of the Age of Aquarius, the millennium of peace and restoration as humanity prepares for the long ascent to the next golden age.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 2:44 pm 
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Robert Tulip wrote:
Dear Tat et al

I am now reading The Secret Doctrine by HP Blavatsky. Written in about 1890, it synthesises much of the theosophical vision of the nineteenth century from visionary writers such as Gerald Massey. Blavatsky was incautious in challenging scientific orthodoxy, and as a result her reputation suffered badly. The challenge now in reading such work is to set aside the errors and focus on the insights. Major insights in theosophy, related to our discussion here of Zep Tepi as the Egyptian framework of time, include that the Abrahamic faiths are a fragmentary reflection of older deeper wisdom, and that texts have to be analysed for allegorical rather than literal meaning. The Secret Doctrine contains numerous resonances to the work that Acharya is now rediscovering.

I was very pleased Tat that you raised the question of the nature of the beast of Revelation. The description at Revelation 13:2 makes such a clear and informative linkage between the precession and the Biblical code that it could well prove decisive in shifting the paradigm of Biblical studies to include astrotheology.

I see that as coming ahead.

Quote:
The creature like a leopard with bear feet and lion mouth describes exactly the night sky viewed with the north pole as the base, shifting with precession. The dragon who gave this creature “his power, seat and authority" corresponds exactly to the constellation Draco the dragon, where the pole star was seated for thousands of years until about 2000 BC. We have here a precise and simple description of the precession of the north pole over the course of the Great Year, during the period of human history. The wobble of the earth inscribes a circle in the stars, with the North Celestial Pole (the pole of the earth’s axis) rotating about the North Ecliptic Pole (the pole of the sun’s axis) once per Great Year. The gift of the dragon’s power, seat and authority to the spotted bear-lion described in Revelation 13:2 is the movement of the celestial pole from the dragon into the little bear. The alignment of the sun’s pole, the earth’s pole, the great bear and the lion occurred at the time the Bible designates as the fall, the dawn of the Age of Taurus in about 4300 BC.

This is a hell of an insight. And it falls right in line with the rest of the narrative that we've uncovered thus far.
Quote:
As we have discussed before, the tribulation, the 3.5 periods described as ‘times, time and half a time’ or 42 months, describes a period of about 7000 years of human history, the bottom third of the Great Year. We can now see the tribulation begins at the time of the beast, the moment when the bear-lion in the stars aligned to the north poles at the fall from grace. It therefore makes sense to identify the beast with the tribulation.

So much for the usual Revelation seminars about awaiting a 3.5 year period - expected to come in the future - ruled by an anti-christ world leader. :lol:

The world has been dominated by the "Beast" in the sky, which is dominant during the lower part of the precession cycle, and which happens to be the darkest "1/3" of the precession cycle, which is but a "short time" with respect to the other 2/3 of the Great Year. And it's interesting to note that this "short time" period which is given as "times, times, and half a time" / 42 months, corresponds to the descent of human spiritual awareness - a metaphorical time of ruling "darkness" and deception. The "Beastly" nature of the human mind (lower chakra awareness region) down below is dominant during this time period of precession through the "Beast" above. There's a great deal of confusion going around in the world as well, a "Babylon the Great" as it were. Babel being linked to the confusion of langauge and understanding. It all points to what is happening during these lower four ages (1/3) of the Great Year according astrological lore, and it all keeps coming together more and more as we focus in on it.
Quote:
Over the last 4000 years the pole has precessed through the bear. With the culmination of Orion's Belt, the exact alignment of the pole to Polaris is another marker of the dawn of the Age of Aquarius, the millennium of peace and restoration as humanity prepares for the long ascent to the next golden age.

This is all leading into an insightful way of reading Revelation indeed. If this comes together well enough, I would think that you could make a presentation at CPAK. Precession is discussed every year.

Wouldn't it be nice to give a lecture on how the Bible makes use of the Great Year lore? This audience already understands the eastern consciousness model and have the back ground necessary to quickly pick up on how this all corresponds to what the Bible writers were doing with their allegorical writings. And the discoveries of Bauval are known in these circles as well. Everything is ripe for a presentation such as that which you've been accumulating over the years. But I think the speakers come on invitation only, so you'd have to publish a book on it and get their attention. And also try to keep away from taking issue with Cruttenden's binary star theory in the book. :lol:

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The Jesus Mythicist Creed:
The "Jesus Christ" of the New Testament is a fictional composite of characters, real and mythical. A composite of multiple "people" is no one.

The celestial Origins of Religious Belief
ZG Part 1
Jesus: Hebrew Human or Mythical Messiah?


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 5:57 pm 
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Let me see if I can push you somewhat forward :wink: I have loads of theories and ideas around different perspectives. But from the biblical path this could be interesting for you.

After Ragnarok - from the poetic Edda

64. More fair than the sun, | a hall I see,
Roofed with gold, | on Gimle it stands;
There shall the righteous | rulers dwell,
And happiness ever | there shall they have.

65. There comes on high, | all power to hold,
A mighty lord, | all lands he rules.

. . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . .

66. From below the dragon | dark comes forth,
Nithhogg flying | from Nithafjoll;
The bodies of men on | his wings he bears,
The serpent bright: | but now must I sink.

[64. This stanza is quoted by Snorri. Gimle: Snorri makes this the name of the hall itself, while here it appears to refer to a mountain on which the hall stands. It is the home of the happy, as opposed to another hall, not here mentioned, for the dead. Snorri's description of this second hall is based on Voluspo, 38, which he quotes, and perhaps that stanza properly belongs after 64.

65. This stanza is not found in Regius, and is probably spurious. No lacuna is indicated in the Hauksbok version, but late paper manuscripts add two lines, running:

"Rule he orders, | and rights he fixes,
Laws he ordains | that ever shall live."

The name of this new ruler is nowhere given, and of course the suggestion of Christianity is unavoidable. It is not certain, how ever, that even this stanza refers to Christianity, and if it does, it may have been interpolated long after the rest of the poem was composed.

66. This stanza, which fits so badly with the preceding ones, [fp. 27] may well have been interpolated. It has been suggested that the dragon, making a last attempt to rise, is destroyed, this event marking the end of evil in the world. But in both manuscripts the final half-line does not refer to the dragon, but, as the gender shows, to the Volva herself, who sinks into the earth; a sort of conclusion to the entire prophecy. Presumably the stanza (barring the last half-line, which was probably intended as the conclusion of the poem) belongs somewhere in the description of the great struggle. Nithhogg: the dragon at the roots of Yggdrasil; cf. stanza 39 and note. Nithafjoll ("the Dark Crags"); nowhere else mentioned. Must I: the manuscripts have "must she."]

http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/poe/poe03.htm

These verses is influenced by Christianity. But it is about the serpent cast out of the sky, replaced by the new lord.
Norse mythology in general does not imply a new path of the cycle, but a continuation. Christian view differs from Norse, but confirms biblical revelation as Draco related.






Ursa minor and Ursa major are known in Norway as Lille Karlsvogn, Store Karlsvogn. Karl - definition being a man with big M, as in THE Man. Housecarl being a later version with connection ( Húskarlar ), Warrior serving a Jarl / Master, often named as retainers, similar to the Samurais in terms of service. Kar is present Norwegian word for what is known as a real man.

According the Jacob Grimm (Deutsche Mythologie), Ursa Major was also called "Odin's Wagon" in ancient northern Europe. His son riding his wagon, and his feud with the world serpent is better known ;). But there are many versions.

I have so much different information that needs to be sorted out as I track the path from ancient Norse mythology to its origin.....


Mighty is Indra, yea supreme; greatness be his, the Thunderer:
Wide as the heaven extends his power

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 6:36 pm 
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Well, to start out, we've discussed this passage from Joseph Campbell in the past which shows how precession is inter-related through different mythologies, including the Iclandic Eddas:
Quote:
The Inner Reaches of Outer Space: Metaphor as Myth and as Religion

P. 9-12

"For example, in the Hindu sacred epics...the number of years reckoned to the present cycle of time, the so-called Kali Yuga, is 432,000; the number reckoned to the "great cycle", within this Yuga falls is 4,320,000. But then reading one day in the Icelandic Eddas, I discovered that in Othin's warrior hall, there were 540 doors, through each of which, on the "Day of The Wolf" (that is to say at the end of the present cycle of time), there would pass 800 divine warriors to engage the antigods in a mutual battle of annihilation. 800 x 540 = 432,000.

...In Babylon, I then recalled, there had been a Chaldean priest, Berossos, who c. 280 BCE., had rendered into Greek an account of the history and mythology of Babylonia, wherein it was told that between the rise of the first city, Kish, and the coming of the Babylonian mythological flood (from which that of the bible is taken), there elapsed 432,000 years, during which antediluvian era, ten kings reigned. Very long lives! Longer even than Methuselah's (Genesis 5:27), which had been of 969.

So I turned to the Old Testament (Genesis 5) and counting the number of antediluvian patriarchs, Adam to Noah, discovered, of course, that they were ten. How many years? Adam was 130 years old when he begat Seth, who was 105 when he begat Enosh, and so on, to Noah, who was 600 years old when the flood came: to a grand total, from the first day of Adams creation to the first drop of rain of Noah's flood, of 1,656 years. Any relation to 432,000? ...it was shown that in 1,656 years there are 86,400 seven-day weeks. 86,400 divided by 2 equals 43,200.

And so it appears that in the book of Genesis there are two contrary theologies represented in relation to the deluge. One is the old tribal, popular tale of a willful, personal creator god, who saw that "the wickedness of man was great in the earth..." (Genesis 5:6-7). The other idea, which is in fundamental contrast, is that of the disguised number, 86,400, which is a deeply hidden reference to the Gentile, Sumero-Babylonian, mathmatical cosmology of ever-revolving cycles of impersonal time, with whole universes and their populations coming into being, flowering for a season of 43,200 (432,000 or 4,320,000) years, dissolving back into the cosmic mother-sea to rest for an equal amount of years before returning, and so again, and again, and again.

It is to be noticed, by the way, that 1+6+5+6=18, which is twice 9, while 4+3+2=9: 9 being associated with the goddess mother of the world and it's gods. In India the number of recited names in a litany of this goddess is 108. 1+0+8= 9, while 108 X 4 = 432. ...It is strange that in our history books the discovery of the precession of the equinoxes should be attributed to Hipparchus, second century BC., when the magic number 432 (which when multiplied by 60 produces 25,920) was already employed in the reckoning of major cycles of time before that century.]


It does seem worth while to check into how Norse mythology viewed the effects of precession on the circumpolar stars as well.
Quote:
64. More fair than the sun, | a hall I see,
Roofed with gold, | on Gimle it stands;
There shall the righteous | rulers dwell,
And happiness ever | there shall they have.

And then
Quote:
66. From below the dragon | dark comes forth,
Nithhogg flying | from Nithafjoll;
The bodies of men on | his wings he bears,
The serpent bright: | but now must I sink.

This seems to point at something in the way of the descending Yuga cycle, which, when the Eddas are understood as mirroring the Vedic Yugas in the way that Campbell uncovered through the mathematical astrotheology, it makes sense to the see the Dragon associated with darkness and with sinking as relating the descending half of the Vedic Yuga. It sort of stands out. The poem is going from the Golden Age to the Descent. And this involves the Dragon of the circumpolar stars being dominant going into the descending Yuga cycle. Then eventually the Dragon gives way to the Bear as precession moves forward and the descent continues.
Quote:
Ursa Major (Bear) was also called "Odin's Wagon" in ancient northern Europe. His son riding his wagon, and his feud with the world serpent is better known. :wink:

Yes, well that does seem to relate what's happening with the circumpolar stars as precession moves forward into the descending Yuga cycle. And as "Odin's warrior hall" gives a strong clue to precession by using the 432 method, "Odin's wagon" certainly comes off as doing the very same by showing a feud between Draco and Ursa Major according to the circumpolar stars moving through the Great Year. That was a nice addition to the topic.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 7:51 pm 
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Tat Tvam Asi wrote:
Quote:
The description at Revelation 13:2 makes such a clear and informative linkage between the precession and the Biblical code that it could well prove decisive in shifting the paradigm of Biblical studies to include astrotheology.
I see that as coming ahead.
Quote:
The creature like a leopard with bear feet and lion mouth describes exactly the night sky viewed with the north pole as the base, shifting with precession. The dragon who gave this creature “his power, seat and authority" corresponds exactly to the constellation Draco the dragon, where the pole star was seated for thousands of years until about 2000 BC. We have here a precise and simple description of the precession of the north pole over the course of the Great Year, during the period of human history. The wobble of the earth inscribes a circle in the stars, with the North Celestial Pole (the pole of the earth’s axis) rotating about the North Ecliptic Pole (the pole of the sun’s axis) once per Great Year. The gift of the dragon’s power, seat and authority to the spotted bear-lion described in Revelation 13:2 is the movement of the celestial pole from the dragon into the little bear. The alignment of the sun’s pole, the earth’s pole, the great bear and the lion occurred at the time the Bible designates as the fall, the dawn of the Age of Taurus in about 4300 BC.

This is a hell of an insight. And it falls right in line with the rest of the narrative that we've uncovered thus far.
Let’s work through the timing here, as seen in diagram above, from 2324 BC, of the alignment of the north poles of the sun and earth to the stars Regulus, the heart of Leo the Lion, and Phecda, the hip of the Great Bear, and the alignment of the equinox to the Pleiades in Taurus. The North Celestial Pole has since then precessed to the right of the picture, towards its present position near Polaris in Ursa Minor. In this diagram we can see the belt of Orion at the lower right, and Vega at the top. The circle of wedges around the north ecliptic pole correspond to the positions of the north celestial pole in each of the twelve Ages of the Zodiac over the course of the Great Year. This picture shows the position of the pole near the end of the Age of Taurus and the start of the Age of Aries.

At the dawn of the Age of Taurus, in about 4300 BC, the north poles of the sun and earth reached an alignment with the first tail star Urkad of Ursa Major the Great Bear. In 3900 BC the poles aligned to Denebola in the tail of Leo the lion, as well as the Great Bear, and then until 1650 BC the poles were aligned to both the Great Bear and the Lion, reaching the last star of the lion, Leo’s eye Ras Elased Australis, when the alignment also reached Ursa Minor the Little Bear. From 1650 BC to 500 AD, the poles aligned to the Little Bear and the Great Bear, leaving the Great Bear in 500 AD, at the depth of the Kali Yuga. From 500 AD to 2101 AD, when the celestial pole reaches Polaris, the poles align just to the little bear.
Quote:
Quote:
As we have discussed before, the tribulation, the 3.5 periods described as ‘times, time and half a time’ or 42 months, describes a period of about 7000 years of human history, the bottom third of the Great Year. We can now see the tribulation begins at the time of the beast, the moment when the bear-lion in the stars aligned to the north poles at the fall from grace. It therefore makes sense to identify the beast with the tribulation.

So much for the usual Revelation seminars about awaiting a 3.5 year period - expected to come in the future - ruled by an anti-christ world leader. :lol: The world has been dominated by the "Beast" in the sky, which is dominant during the lower part of the precession cycle, and which happens to be the darkest "1/3" of the precession cycle, which is but a "short time" with respect to the other 2/3 of the Great Year. And it's interesting to note that this "short time" period which is given as "times, times, and half a time" / 42 months, corresponds to the descent of human spiritual awareness - a metaphorical time of ruling "darkness" and deception. The "Beastly" nature of the human mind (lower chakra awareness region) down below is dominant during this time period of precession through the "Beast" above. There's a great deal of confusion going around in the world as well, a "Babylon the Great" as it were. Babel being linked to the confusion of langauge and understanding. It all points to what is happening during these lower four ages (1/3) of the Great Year according astrological lore, and it all keeps coming together more and more as we focus in on it.
Revelation 12:3-4 says “ another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on his heads. His tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky.” Looking back now to Zep Tepi, in 10750 BC the poles aligned to Eltanin, the nostril of the dragon Draco. We see here the dragon whose tail sweeps one third of the stars of the sky. For one third of the Great Year, and one third of the sky, the pole precessed after Zep Tepi through Draco, finally moving into the little bear in 1650 BC, when the dragon gave the bear-lion his seat as described at Revelation 13:2. Alternatively, the tail of Draco continues past Ursa Minor, sweeping the sky with the celestial pole from 6500 BC until 500 AD.

Further, Revelation 12:4 says "The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that he might devour her child the moment it was born." We see here that Draco the dragon stands between the north ecliptic pole, the pole of the sun, and Virgo, the woman giving birth, and the north celestial pole, the pole of the earth, precessed through Draco past Virgo during the Ages of Cancer and Gemini. Revelation 12:6 then says "The woman fled into the desert to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days." Here again, the 3.5 years or 1260 days stands as allegory for the fall, the 3.5 ages when the mother goes into hiding while the earth is dominated by male ideas of God.

This all gives us two meanings of the third of the sky, starting both from Zep Tepi in 10750 BC and from the beginning of the Age of Taurus in 4300 BC. One third of the Great Year from Zep Tepi is when the dragon’s tail sweeps the sky, while one third of the Great Year from Taurus to Aquarius is the period of the fall, the period of the tribulation of the beasts when the dragon hands his seat to the bear-lion.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 8:34 pm 
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What is the one that looks like a kitty cat right above Leo? I didn't know Leo, a lion and not a lioness, had a kitten.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 8:45 pm 
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Mriana wrote:
What is the one that looks like a kitty cat right above Leo? I didn't know Leo, a lion and not a lioness, had a kitten.

Leo Minor


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 8:57 pm 
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Oh ok. I guess he had a son. :lol:

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Non-violence leads to the highest ethics, which is the goal of all evolution. Until we stop harming all other living beings, we are still savages. ~ Thomas A. Edison


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:33 pm 
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Another edition to the thread is Yeats "The Second Coming" poem which has baffled Christians for years: http://www.enotes.com/twentieth-century ... iam-butler
Quote:
William Butler Yeats (1865-1939)
THE SECOND COMING

Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
Troubles my sight: a waste of desert sand;
A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
Wind shadows of the indignant desert birds.
The darkness drops again but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?



Quote:
Biographical Information
Yeats was born in Dublin to Irish-Protestant parents. His father was a painter who influenced his son's thoughts about art. Yeats's mother shared with her son her interest in folklore, fairies, and astrology as well as her love of Ireland, particularly the region surrounding Sligo in western Ireland where Yeats spent much of his childhood. Educated in England and Ireland, Yeats was erratic in his studies, shy, and prone to daydreaming. In 1884 he enrolled in the Metropolitan School of Art in Dublin. There he met the poet George Russell, who shared Yeats's enthusiasm for dreams and visions. Together they founded the Dublin Hermetic Society to conduct magical experiments and "to promote the study of Oriental Religions and Theosophy." Yeats also joined the Rosicrucians, the Theosophical Society, and MacGregor Mather's Order of the Golden Dawn.

His interest in astrology and oriental religion puts him squarely in touch with precession and the Yuga cycles of time. It seems fairly clear that Yeats understood that the Sphinx symbolizes the age to come, the Aquarius-Leo axis. Bethlehem means "house of bread" and is a general reference to Virgo (not a place on earth). The current axis being the Pisces-Virgo axis hailed by Jesus in the loaves and fishes allegory. The Sphinx slouching towards Bethlehem to be born hints at the coming age of Aquarius and reveals that he understood that the second coming motif of the bible is aimed at the second age of the Great Year - Aquarius-Leo / Sphinx. He saw this as the end of the Christian era, revealing that he understood that the Jesus personification represents the current age and that the personification will end at the end of the age as well. Thus ending the Christian era in that sense. And this all tends to reveal that "The Message of the Sphinx" as marking the Leo-Aquarius axis, and it's opposite, has passed down over the years and was never totally lost.

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The celestial Origins of Religious Belief
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Jesus: Hebrew Human or Mythical Messiah?


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:42 pm 
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Tat Tvam Asi wrote:
His interest in astrology and oriental religion puts him squarely in touch with precession and the Yuga cycles of time. It seems fairly clear that Yeats understood that the Sphinx symbolizes the age to come, the Aquarius-Leo axis. Bethlehem means "house of bread" and is a general reference to Virgo (not a place on earth). The current axis being the Pisces-Virgo axis hailed by Jesus in the loaves and fishes allegory. The Sphinx slouching towards Bethlehem to be born hints at the coming age of Aquarius and reveals that he understood that the second coming motif of the bible is aimed at the second age of the Great Year - Aquarius-Leo / Sphinx. He saw this as the end of the Christian era, revealing that he understood that the Jesus personification represents the current age and that the personification will end at the end of the age as well. Thus ending the Christian era in that sense. And this all tends to reveal that "The Message of the Sphinx" as marking the Leo-Aquarius axis, and it's opposite, has passed down over the years and was never totally lost.

You have prompted me to get out my copy of A Vision


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 11:22 pm 
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Robert Tulip wrote:
Revelation 12:3-4 says “ another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on his heads. His tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky.” Looking back now to Zep Tepi, in 10750 BC the poles aligned to Eltanin, the nostril of the dragon Draco. We see here the dragon whose tail sweeps one third of the stars of the sky. For one third of the Great Year, and one third of the sky, the pole precessed after Zep Tepi through Draco, finally moving into the little bear in 1650 BC, when the dragon gave the bear-lion his seat as described at Revelation 13:2. Alternatively, the tail of Draco continues past Ursa Minor, sweeping the sky with the celestial pole from 6500 BC until 500 AD.

Further, Revelation 12:4 says "The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that he might devour her child the moment it was born." We see here that Draco the dragon stands between the north ecliptic pole, the pole of the sun, and Virgo, the woman giving birth, and the north celestial pole, the pole of the earth, precessed through Draco past Virgo during the Ages of Cancer and Gemini. Revelation 12:6 then says "The woman fled into the desert to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days." Here again, the 3.5 years or 1260 days stands as allegory for the fall, the 3.5 ages when the mother goes into hiding while the earth is dominated by male ideas of God.


I knew that the women going into the desert had to do with going into hiding for the descending ages, but the edition of precession on the circumpolar stars really brings out the meaning of it much clearer. And this is when the Patriarchy came to dominance as well. That's a good point.

Quote:
This all gives us two meanings of the third of the sky, starting both from Zep Tepi in 10750 BC and from the beginning of the Age of Taurus in 4300 BC. One third of the Great Year from Zep Tepi is when the dragon’s tail sweeps the sky, while one third of the Great Year from Taurus to Aquarius is the period of the fall, the period of the tribulation of the beasts when the dragon hands his seat to the bear-lion.

This is great. The usual interpretations of the these verses are way way off. Here's one example:
Quote:
Now the beast which I saw was like a leopard, his feet were like the feet of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. The dragon gave him his power, his throne, and great authority.

a. Like a leopard . . . a bear . . . a lion: In this vision, God used images from Daniel’s vision of Daniel 7 to communicate the identity and nature of this beast to John. Daniel 7 uses four animals (beasts) to describe the course of human government from Daniel’s time until the ultimate reign of Jesus on this earth.

i. The first three animals are a lion (a picture of the Babylonian Empire), a bear (a picture of Medo-Persian Empire), and a leopard (a picture of the Greek Empire). The fourth animal was a dreadful, indescribable beast which shared the most terrifying characteristics of the previous beasts, yet represents the final world empire under the leadership of a Satanic dictator (Daniel 7:7-8).
http://www.enduringword.com/commentaries/6613.htm

This shows the folly of the usual interpretation methods for seeking out particular Empires and Kings to account for the strange animal symbolism. It makes so much more sense to see the symbolism as referring to the sky. I mean it doesn't get any clearer than the Dragon whipping 1/3 of the stars in the heavens. We're obviously dealing with the sky and stars and constellations here. And if a strong enough astrotheological interpretation of the text can be made it seems that it could well consume the whole of all the old competing interpretations, for lack of a better term. It could wipe them out across the board, potentially.

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The Jesus Mythicist Creed:
The "Jesus Christ" of the New Testament is a fictional composite of characters, real and mythical. A composite of multiple "people" is no one.

The celestial Origins of Religious Belief
ZG Part 1
Jesus: Hebrew Human or Mythical Messiah?


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