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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 4:17 am 
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Tat Tvam Asi wrote:
Are you proposing Draco and Vega as a possible astronomical basis for the "Dragon" and "False Prophet" of Revelation?


Revelation 19:19-20 says: “I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him who sat on the horse, and against his army. The beast was taken, and with him the false prophet who worked the signs in his sight, with which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur.”

As you would well know, Christians have used this text as part of a circular logic, that Christianity is true therefore the ‘false prophet’ is against Christianity. But it makes no sense to look for the false prophet in the stars, because the stars are real, whereas falsity is the product of human delusion and denial of cosmic truth.

I would prefer to start from first principles regarding what is true and what is false. As a summary of modern knowledge, we know the universe exists, that science by and large provides an accurate explanation of reality, and that many traditional Christian claims are false. There is no basis to assert that this summary of modern knowledge has any falsity in it. Yet, this is how Christians routinely twist the text, into an attack on scientific wisdom, in order to escape their own culpability for believing lies.

Going back to our discussion of Revelation 12:6, “The woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, that there they may nourish her one thousand two hundred sixty days.” I think that here, seeing the woman as the image of previous matrifocal culture before the fall, who is consigned to the wilderness for the 7000 years of the fall during the dominance of patriarchy, we can start to build a coherent story about the false prophet as the image of patriarchal evil. Central to false prophecy is the assertion that its claims are the sole truth. Where else do we see such an arrogant false claim than in fundamentalist religion?

My view is that the fall from grace, which in the Bible aligns to the start of the Age of Taurus with the expulsion of Adam and Eve from Paradise around 4300 BC, represents a commencement of mass delusion, with the rise of the false monotheist dogma that God is a single entity, and male at that. Therefore any claims that are premised on the existence of God as an entity involve false prophecy.

So, the fleeing of the woman into the desert represents the defeat of the former equal society by idolatrous patriarchy, with its false prophecy. The 1260 days represents the ‘time, times and half a time of the tribulation, which is allegory for the 3.5 ages of Christian time of the 7000 years of error from the Age of Taurus to the middle of the Age of Aquarius.

Within this framework of Biblical time, the ‘seventh day’ of creation corresponds to the millennium. But the woman flees for 1260 days, so she is still banished during the millennium, which occurs within the tribulation . What this suggests to me is that the seventh day, the Sabbath of creation, is a time of healing and restoration and peace, in which the woman, representing matrifocal equality, gradually prepares for the shift from the present highly unequal patriarchal society towards a future of sexual equality.

Taking the theme of orthodox Christianity as false prophecy further, we can look at the meaning of the number of the beast, the 666. It is obviously a challenge to interpret this text in a way that is compatible with scientific knowledge. The best reading I have seen of it is by John Michel in City of Revelation, where he describes history in terms of a clash between attunement and control, with the 666 a parable for the human effort to control nature, especially with the line from Revelation 13 that no one will be able to buy or sell without the 666. A good example of a dominant modern instrument of financial control with six letters in each of its three names is the United States Dollar. The false prophet tends to worship money, whereas the Bible tells us that worship of money is idolatrous. The deeply disturbing irony in all this is that the fundamentalists who warn against the false prophet are themselves believers in false prophecy.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 9:24 am 
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Anyone have sources with information about Athenian "Draco the lawgiver"?


Perhaps of interest...


Elymas is another name for Bar-Jesus (arc. Bar-Yeshua, lat. Bariesu), a Jewish magician who appears in the New Testament in the Acts of the Apostles, chapter 13.

Acts of the Apostles calls him a magus, which the King James Bible here translates as "sorcerer". He is represented as opposing Paul of Tarsus and Barnabas on the city of Paphos on Cyprus, when Sergius Paulus, the Roman Proconsul, wishes to hear Paul and Barnabas speak about Jesus.

Elymas means "Wise" in Arabic, while Bar-Yeshua literally means "son of Jesus" in Aramaic.


Acts 13:6-11 (New King James Version)

6 Now when they had gone through the island[a] to Paphos, they found a certain sorcerer, a false prophet, a Jew whose name was Bar-Jesus, 7 who was with the proconsul, Sergius Paulus, an intelligent man. This man called for Barnabas and Saul and sought to hear the word of God. 8 But Elymas the sorcerer (for so his name is translated) withstood them, seeking to turn the proconsul away from the faith. 9 Then Saul, who also is called Paul, filled with the Holy Spirit, looked intently at him 10 and said, “O full of all deceit and all fraud, you son of the devil, you enemy of all righteousness, will you not cease perverting the straight ways of the Lord? 11



Wisdom needed to understand the number of the beast is the wisdom of the Magi I guess. The wisdom of the Magi, false prophets being astrology/astronomy. I am not sure about the precise measures, but if 666 refers to something like declination it would be more than pure chance? or ?

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Never place blame on man, because it happens to all. No matter how wise, a fool he becomes, when love steals his powers.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 7:19 pm 
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Tat Tvam Asi wrote:
Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
Troubles my sight: a waste of desert sand;
A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
Wind shadows of the indignant desert birds.
The darkness drops again but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?


Getting back to this reference to the sphinx in The Second Coming by Yeats, it clearly is a reference to the Age of Aquarius, when the equinox polarity moves from Pisces-Virgo, the fish-virgin of Christianity, to Aquarius-Leo, the man-lion of the new age.

I've been looking at my copy of A Vision by Yeats again over the last week. It is his attempt to explain the Great Year. Most of it makes no sense, with Yeats asserting that imaginary spirits inspire him to automatic writing. The division of the Age into the 28 days of the moon is a main theme of A Vision that does not make much sense to me, although the broad symbolic theme of continual rise and fall measuring the ages against the cycle of the moon has a certain ethereal beauty.

The chapter on The Great Year of the Ancients is the only bit that I really like, with scholarly discussion of Plato, Cicero, Virgil, Anaximander, Empedocles, Caesar, Proclus, Christ, Hipparchus, Ptolemy, Plotinus, Vico, Dante, Frobenius, Spengler, Goethe, the Upanishads, and Croce. He says "When the automatic script began, neither I nor my wife knew, or knew that we knew, that any man had tried to explain history philosophically. I, at any rate, would have said that all written upon the subject was a paragraph in my own Per Amica Silentia Lunae." I'm not sure what paragraph he means as an explanation of history by philosophy, but I wonder if anyone here has noticed my interest in the friendly silent moon? Yeats makes a number of comments in his discussion of the Great Year which explain his thinking in The Second Coming, which he uses to conclude the chapter.

The key point here is the attempt "to explain history philosophically". This is a paradigm for wisdom that conventional thought cannot comprehend, using the scientific observations of astronomy to frame culture. Once we take forward the hypothesis that the widening gyre of history has an intrinsic meaning that is reflected in the slow turn of the heavens, we are on the path to interpret why the authors of the Bible inserted the precessional code that shows the structure of time as the framework for eschatology.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 6:32 pm 
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Robert Tulip wrote:
As you would well know, Christians have used this text as part of a circular logic, that Christianity is true therefore the ‘false prophet’ is against Christianity. But it makes no sense to look for the false prophet in the stars, because the stars are real, whereas falsity is the product of human delusion and denial of cosmic truth.

Hang on now, we need to look at this closer. The Dragon and Beast seem to point to the stars, specifically the circumpolar stars that were used by the Egyptians in orienting monuments towards the north and observing the effects of precession on the circumpolar stars according to Bauval. And we have three characters in this astrotheological drama consisting of the Dragon, Beast, and false prophet. Now the usual search for the false prophet takes us down a path like you've described. It could be the church itself or some political figure or anything. It's usually viewed as something to do with a person on the earth.

What I was getting at was to investigate it from a different perspective which is out of the norm. I don't have anything solid to suggest but my gut feeling when reading Bauvals investigation of the step Pyramid was that it's intentionally oriented to the Bear / Plough / dipper which is not 'true north'. That got me thinking about the Dragon and Bear and prompted my bringing it up here as a possible explanation for the Dragon and Beast of Revelation. Knowing that Revelation contains a lot of Egyptian oriented Gnostic imagery, it makes sense to pursue that lead.

When I brought up Vega I was just looking at the star chart and throwing out options. But the Beast and False Prophet are mentioned together, as in the Beast which is not "true" north in otherwords. Perhaps a 'false north' of sorts. The viewing chamber in the step pyramid is oriented towards "false north", towards the Bear / Beast, and to the east Sirius is viewed. This is very fragmentary but I was beginning to see something coming together. And this isn't to take away from the reality of the church being involved in false prophecy, because it clearly is, I'm just saying that the allegory may be saying something deeper yet that we haven't penetrated. The reign of the Beast which is not "true north", rather offset from true north, involves the period of the GY where mankind's spiritual awareness falls to an all time low. That reflects into the activities of the church along with everything else during this time period. It all comes together even if we keep our sights on the stars to decode the meaning. I keep thinking that it may be a stellar reference all along because that's what the allegory in Revelation is about.

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The deeply disturbing irony in all this is that the fundamentalists who warn against the false prophet are themselves believers in false prophecy.

Yes, in terms of denying the cosmic message of the scriptures. The prophecies they are working with are clearly false. The examples I posted previously display that aspect. This is during a period of the GY when the Beast is dominant in the circumpolar sky, the celestial Beast which is off set from "true north". The whole false prophet thing is certainly mysterious and there's much more to discover. It just seems that it's all set up 'as above so below', and so something above is the first reference which then reflects down to the earth below. Why would the False Prophet be any different than the Dragon and Beast? They are a description of what is above in the sky effecting what is happening down below on earth according to the esoteric reading. And this is a lower chakra / animalistic dominant time period during the reign of the Beast above.

Robert Tulip wrote:
I've been looking at my copy of A Vision by Yeats again over the last week. It is his attempt to explain the Great Year. Most of it makes no sense, with Yeats asserting that imaginary spirits inspire him to automatic writing. The division of the Age into the 28 days of the moon is a main theme of A Vision that does not make much sense to me, although the broad symbolic theme of continual rise and fall measuring the ages against the cycle of the moon has a certain ethereal beauty.

This is very theosophy based. The spirits are obviously nonsense. But he came by this knowledge some how and I'd bet that it's been passing down through the generations of secret society initiates. The spirit thing being a cover story to take away from where the information actually came from. He's not at liberty to disclose to the public where it came from or to openly decode the meaning of the symbolic imagery in the poem. That would betray his initiation vows. It seems that he's trying to walk a fine line.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 7:02 pm 
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Vallhall wrote:
Anyone have sources with information about Athenian "Draco the lawgiver"?


Perhaps of interest...


Elymas is another name for Bar-Jesus (arc. Bar-Yeshua, lat. Bariesu), a Jewish magician who appears in the New Testament in the Acts of the Apostles, chapter 13.

Acts of the Apostles calls him a magus, which the King James Bible here translates as "sorcerer". He is represented as opposing Paul of Tarsus and Barnabas on the city of Paphos on Cyprus, when Sergius Paulus, the Roman Proconsul, wishes to hear Paul and Barnabas speak about Jesus.

Elymas means "Wise" in Arabic, while Bar-Yeshua literally means "son of Jesus" in Aramaic.


Acts 13:6-11 (New King James Version)

6 Now when they had gone through the island[a] to Paphos, they found a certain sorcerer, a false prophet, a Jew whose name was Bar-Jesus, 7 who was with the proconsul, Sergius Paulus, an intelligent man. This man called for Barnabas and Saul and sought to hear the word of God. 8 But Elymas the sorcerer (for so his name is translated) withstood them, seeking to turn the proconsul away from the faith. 9 Then Saul, who also is called Paul, filled with the Holy Spirit, looked intently at him 10 and said, “O full of all deceit and all fraud, you son of the devil, you enemy of all righteousness, will you not cease perverting the straight ways of the Lord? 11

Wisdom needed to understand the number of the beast is the wisdom of the Magi I guess. The wisdom of the Magi, false prophets being astrology/astronomy. I am not sure about the precise measures, but if 666 refers to something like declination it would be more than pure chance? or ?

Thank you for bring up this interesting observation Vallhall. The context of the verse as it has been arranged into the cannon is that the age of Aries has passed by. The last year of the age of Aries is symbolized by Jesus' entire life's ministry which is merely the sun moving around the zodiac until the sun crossed over into the age of Pisces, which started the new GY. After the GY had reset after the crucifixion and resurrection, Jesus eventually exits the scene and the disciples go out to win converts. Stephen is martyred after all of this and his speech to the Sanhedrin covers some one who had taken up the fish symbolism of the new age and is scolding the Jewish religious leaders for always killing Gods prophets. It covers the turning of Taurus, to Aries, to Pisces via Abraham to Moses and down to Jesus. He then looks up toward the sky and declares that he sees Jesus at the right hand of God - the sign of Pisces is now rising in the east during the vernal equinox sunrises, in short, the sun is now housed in the sign of Pisces standing at the right hand (east) of God (existence). He's taken out and stoned to death for declaring this, while Saul watches in approval. Saul seeks to cling to the symbolism of the old age and reject the fish symbolism of Jesus.

This represents symbolism about those who have been watching the signs in the sky and therefore accept the symbolism of the new age, contrasted with the old institutions that represent the former world ages which refuse to change over to the new age and want to kill those who do wish to make the necessary changes in accordance with the new age symbolism. The old institutions wish to try and preserve the old ways, which have just become officially outdated according to the stars above. So then Saul sets out to kill these new age Christians and then sees a bright light shinning like the sun and suddenly gets an understanding of what's going on, by way of this mystical experience with the light. Now he converts over from the old ways of Aries based Judaism to the new ways of the messianic age of the GY, the age of Pisces. He then sets out to promote the symbolism of the Piscean age thereafter. That's when we come up on the story about the magus as a "false prophet", not the "false prophet" of the book of Revelation of course, but a "false prophet" mentioned here in the book of Acts.

So false what? Paul curses him and the magus looses his vision just Saul had lost vision when confronted with the new age on the road to Damascus. I've taken this in context with the running astrotheological theme and assumed that this Jewish magus is one like the Jewish religious leaders who has failed to come into accord with the new age in favor of clinging to the old. That's one reading. He's false, in other words he's out of accord with the new age. The Magi, in contrast, are those wise men from the east, represented as Chaldeans usually, who understood what was about to happen in the sky and who were anticipating the new age and GY to come, which the nativity is meant to set in motion - the last year of the old age. The Magi give their approval to the new age, while the magus seems to be the very opposite of that. There are two astrological characters at play which consist of those deemed divine while others dammed. Both involve astrology, or astrotheological as it were. So there's a true understanding of the heavens and a false portrayal of the heavens it would seem. The false being a false prophet. A prophet like Ezekiel or Daniel also speak of astrological GY symbolism but are considered divine. So that much has to be considered when trying to contemplate the issue. There's divine and demonic astrology going on in the narrative. And the divine seems oriented around astrological correctness and staying true to the times. Everyone who is out of accord with the current astrological time period gets dammed in the narrative, like the Golden Calf incident during the turn over of the previous age from Taurus to Aries. The good guy was Moses who stressed the astrologically correct symbolism of the Ram over the apis Bull of Taurus.

And I need to think on all of this some more, but if the false prophet allegory in Revelation has something to do with declination as you've mentioned then that could open up some interesting leads. And maybe Robert can can look into with the astronomy software to see if any jumps out at him.

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The "Jesus Christ" of the New Testament is a fictional composite of characters, real and mythical. A composite of multiple "people" is no one.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 7:45 pm 
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Here's another video on the pyramids at Giza aligned to Orion and Sirius in the south and Ursa minor and Draco in the north:



So Bauval points out that these stars in Ursa minor (beast) and Draco (dragon) are mentioned in the pyramid texts, along with Orion and Sirius. It would interesting to pin down where these stars are mentioned in relation to what we find in revelation about the Beast and Dragon.

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The "Jesus Christ" of the New Testament is a fictional composite of characters, real and mythical. A composite of multiple "people" is no one.

The celestial Origins of Religious Belief
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Jesus: Hebrew Human or Mythical Messiah?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 6:52 pm 
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Tat Tvam Asi wrote:
Bauval points out that these stars in Ursa minor (beast) and Draco (dragon) are mentioned in the pyramid texts, along with Orion and Sirius. It would interesting to pin down where these stars are mentioned in relation to what we find in revelation about the Beast and Dragon.


The dragon passes its power and throne and authority to the bear in Rev 13:2, in precise correspondence to the movement of the North Celestial Pole from Thuban in Draco to Polaris in Ursa Minor as marked by the pyramid shafts. Thuban was the pole star for most of the Ages of Taurus and Aries, while Polaris is the Pole Star for most of the Ages of Pisces and Aquarius.

Orion and Sirius designate the three magi and the star in the east. In the sky, the line from Orion's Belt through Sirius points to Argo, to a group of four stars sitting on the deck of the ship that corresponds to the coffin of Osiris, Noah's Ark and the Manger of Christ. Argo contains the bright star Canopus, thought by some to be the star of Osiris, as shown in the Dendera Zodiac, but neglected due to its invisibility from Europe. It would be interesting to find out if the pyramids have any marker to Canopus in their design.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 6:28 pm 
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Danish historian and author Ove von Spaeth have a booklet concerning issue at hand.

Ove von Spaeth: " Star Tradition from a Mysterious Past. - booklet “

http://www.moses-egypt.net/images/3ovs_ ... book-a.pdf


Attachment:
Worldaxis.JPG
Worldaxis.JPG [ 60.83 KiB | Viewed 6957 times ]

Sight line of the World-axis on Senmut‟s star map leads from the stars Canopus via Sirius to Lyra at the north. The Senmut map's “mast” with the revolving constellation Meskethiu (Great Bear) which is connecting with Horus and his harpoon. Above is placed the star goddess of the Scorpion stars (which in the real sky also is placed exactly here, and thus being near the exposed constellation Cygnus-Swan).




Ove von Spaeth is a very interesting man. He is known for dating and decoding the oldest Egyptian star map. His work on the Senmut star map was published some years ago in Centaurus, a scientific journal devoted to the history of mathematics, science, and technology. It is the journal of the European Society for the History of Science.
Centaurus was formerly known as the International Magazine of the History of Science and Medicine; and, the International Magazine of the History of Mathematics, Science and Technology

You can get it following this link
http://www.moses-egypt.net/images/datin ... ar_map.pdf

Image





He is independently from this specific scientific acknowledged publication, working on several subjects and theories closely connected. He connects Senmut not only as famous innovative vizier in ancient Egypt, but even as origin and man the Moses myth is founded upon.

You can find vast amounts of interesting reading with sources, links and publications by following this link

Assassinating Moses
http://www.moses-egypt.net/book-series/ ... map_en.asp

Enjoy :wink:

Image

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 7:06 pm 
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Nice one Vallhall, thanks for posting.
Quote:
"Ove von Spaeth is a very interesting man. He is known for dating and decoding the oldest Egyptian star map."

How old does he say the oldest Egyptian star map is?

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 6:54 am 
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The specific event depicted on the Senmut map is calculated to be May 1534 BC ( Gregorian calender ). I know there are disputes and discussions regarding different theories, and I do by all means not assume knowledge about who are correct.
Spaeth and his work concerning the Senmut map is not the established community view, but deserve some interest as it is published by a journal with very high credentials.

Purpose of my post was to add some perspectives concerning Roberts post, and his thoughts;
Quote:
It would be interesting to find out if the pyramids have any marker to Canopus in their design.


Views outside the frame of mind set by the established community is always interesting, as it is the place where new knowledge comes from. Like Acharya boldly question established view of Christianity and Jesus as founded on a "persons biography", Ove von Spaeth presents Judaism and Moses as continuation of ancient Egyptian knowledge. The difference is suggestion of Moses being a historical person, with religion being myth created around him.

His work is interesting because it presents views that promote looking for knowledge outside "the box" that our mindset impose. I stumbled upon his work when I was looking at something interesting regarding the "mother and child" depictions that repeats itself in religions. Symbolism and patterns are my personal main interest and focus.

Senmut and the princess images are so similar to other known versions that it is almost strange to see them as pure coincidence. This is one example ;

Image

Senmut and the princess Neferure
Altes Museum, Berlin


Senmut, triumphant, not found among the writings of the ancestors, great father-tutor of the king's-daughter, Sovereign of the Two Lands, Divine Consort, Nefrure, -- -- which I did according to the thought of my heart -- -- --

Mortuary Prayer
A royal offering, which Amun-Re and the King of Upper and Lower Egypt, Maatkare, give; may they grant the mortuary oblation of bread, beer, oxen, geese, linen, incense, ointment.

A Royal Gift
Given as a favor of the king's-presence [to] the hereditary prince, count, companion, great in love, steward of Amun, Senmut.

Mortuary Prayer
A royal offering which Osiris, lord of Abydos gives; may he grant all that cometh forth from his table every day for the ka of the hereditary prince — — who greatly satisfies the heart of the Lord of the Two Lands, the favorite of the Good God, the overseer of the granary of Amun, Senmut.

Senmut's Favor with King and Queen
He says, "I was a noble, beloved of his lord, who entered upon the wonderful plans of the Mistress of the Two Lands. He exalted me before the Two Lands, he appointed me to be chief of his estate throughout the entire land. I was the superior of superiors, the chief of chiefs of works. I was in this land under his command since the occurrence of the death of his predecessor. I was in life
under the Mistress of the Two Lands, King of Upper and Lower Egypt, Maatkare (Hatshepsut), who liveth forever."


(Thutmose III that followed Hatshepsut is known to dislike Senmut and his postition as well as relationship with Hatshepsut. Historically this could well be origin of the myth concerning the exodus.)


Funny as it is, and out of context and topic. Searching for images and objects related I found other items that enforce religion as a comparative astronomical and historical subject.

From the Metropolitan museum of art

Birth of Buddha
Image
http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/works-of-art/1987.417.1

Predating Christianity. Depicting the mother and child, with sister who raised the child after mothers death. Adoration of three people to the left, with the attendant on the farthest right holding a pitcher filled with water for the ritual bath.

Krishna's Foster-Mother Yashoda with the Infant Krishna
Image
http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/works-of-art/1982.220.8



Enough rambling from me :lol: . Not sure if anything made sense, but in a hurry to attend a ice hockey match. Have a nice weekend.

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Never place blame on man, because it happens to all. No matter how wise, a fool he becomes, when love steals his powers.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 8:57 am 
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Hello Vallhall, thank you for sharing material from Ove von Spaeth on Egyptian star religion which I read with interest, especially his comments on Canopus.

In the Golden Age known by the Egyptians as Zep Tepi, around 10,000 BC, Canopus and Vega were the pole stars. Canopus has since shifted far from the south pole, becoming visible in Egypt in historical times due to the precession wobble. Canopus is now equidistant between the south celestial pole and Sirius along a straight line. Continuing this line north eventually reaches Vega because Canopus and Vega are opposite in the sky. Santillana and von Dechend discuss Canopus at some length in Hamlet's Mill.

My opinion, as I have expressed here previously, agrees with the theory of Philip Coppens and others that Canopus was a main star in Egyptian religion, but its invisibility from Europe meant that myths linking Canopus and Osiris were not understood by the Greeks. From Egypt Canopus and Argo sail across the southern sky at the time since co-opted by Mariolatry as the festival of blessing the waters with the launch of the ships in spring, when the barque of Osiris and Isis was launched on the Nile. Interestingly, the Arks of Gilgamesh and Jason both have fifty oars, one for each second of arc of precession each year.

Von Spaeth opens interesting speculation about ancient civilizations. It is fun to imagine speculative links. My favorite is to imagine that the emerald tablet of Thoth is at the subterranean capstone formed by the point of an octahedron made by adding a mirror image pyramid below the Great Pyramid, as above so below. Even more imaginatively, I have noticed that Tahiti is exactly opposite the city of Thoth (Tehuti), Hermopolis. Balancing a globe of the world on a cup with Tahiti at the bottom will show Egypt at the top. Tahiti was first discovered by the Polynesians about 600 years ago, but this similarity of name is nonetheless an interesting coincidence. Noting the presence of sturdy ships at the pyramids led von Daniken to all sorts of speculation.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 5:28 pm 
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Well Robert, this thread turned out to be rather valuable. The star charts you've presented in your paper on Blavatsky and the Great Year make the references to the Dragon and Beasts very clear and understandable.

Robert Tulip wrote:

_________________
The Jesus Mythicist Creed:
The "Jesus Christ" of the New Testament is a fictional composite of characters, real and mythical. A composite of multiple "people" is no one.

The celestial Origins of Religious Belief
ZG Part 1
Jesus: Hebrew Human or Mythical Messiah?


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 9:37 pm 
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Tat Tvam Asi wrote:
Well Robert, this thread turned out to be rather valuable. The star charts you've presented in your paper on Blavatsky and the Great Year make the references to the Dragon and Beasts very clear and understandable.
Robert Tulip wrote:
Tat, you are still the only person who has commented on or acknowledged this analysis, after I presented it in a public address at Sydney University and published it here and at Joseph Campbell Foundation and Booktalk.org. Your question in this thread prompted me to look at Revelation 12 and 13 in the same way I have looked at Revelation 21 and other chapters. As you note it enabled a clear and understandable explanation. The stellar code in the Bible is consistent and compelling, but people need the courage to look for it and stare down the bigots. This is where Acharya's pioneering work is such an inspiration.

The Sydney University session was billed as a "Symposium on the legacies of theosophy - unveiling mysteries of the creative imaginary". My paper was supposed to be followed by discussion, but the organisers announced without reason that the discussion session was cancelled, even though there was time for it. The fear I see in people's eyes whenever I suggest that Revelation can be subject to rational analysis reminds me of a rabbit in the headlights. People are just terrified of this book, even in what should be a friendly environment.

The link to Blavatsky is something of a distraction, given her mixed reputation, as I note in the paper, but The Secret Doctrine provides a useful hook to link this material to ongoing cultural debates, and to the explanation of why it is so difficult to open interdisciplinary discussion on cosmology. This whole area of study is fraught with swirling undercurrents of assumption, prejudice and error. I really appreciate that you have engaged me in a serious dialogue on it, going back over a number of threads here on Free Thought Nation.

Our conversations here have prompted a number of new findings that I am sure will help to transform how people read the Bible. We are looking at a paradigm shift on an unprecedented scale. Recognising the Zep Tepi axis of time as the emerging framework for a new age opens deep fissures in culture and religion, and is central to an approach to theology that treats the subject matter with integrity and rationality.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 11:32 pm 
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I don't get that Robert. I would think that the theosophists have enough background to easily understand a presentation like this about the Great Year and the Bible. We'll have to see what comes of the jcf audience over time, but for now its slow. There's more action in the Conversation With A Thousand Faces forum though, so you may want to post something there and see what sort of responses come from it. The mythology and religion section is a bit more slow paced. Maybe we need to spend some time at an astrology forum. Do you have any active threads going on right now on an astrology forum?

No matter the current action on the paper, you did a good job of illustrating the points. I've said before that I was quite literally born into an environment surrounded by the Beast and Dragon symbolism of Revelation. They are currently running a Revelation seminar about this very Dragon and Beast imagery this next week, according to the promotional signs people have been posting on their front lawns. I'm not frightened off by Daniel and Revelation at all because I've seen this imagery from as far back as I can remember and it's been extremely mysterious the entire time. The explanations I've received have all been unsatisfactory. I just want to get a firm grip on what it all actually is, not what people assume it to be.

So what I see when looking at the star charts is something in the way of a progressive Revelation seminar where the book can be decoded strictly by way of the astrotheological symbolism everywhere that's presented in the text, everywhere. I can see something in the way of a non church affiliated Revelation seminar which is also free to the public, and goes further than everyone else because it uncovers the 'code key' to the text, which is neglected by the usual interpretations that do not make use of the precession theme of the 12 foundational jewels. The interesting thing is that 12 foundational jewels are a foundation in reality, the very foundation for understanding the book itself. And without the foundation of the 12 ages of the Great Year all of the other interpretations that neglect to acknowledge the precession references throughout, have been built on sand foundations. They just fall apart right away because they've been exposed for missing the main point of the text. One can not fully understand the imagery of the Dragon and Beast without understanding the 12 foundational Jewels that decode it. This has some very interesting potential.

Robert Tulip wrote:
Your question in this thread prompted me to look at Revelation 12 and 13 in the same way I have looked at Revelation 21 and other chapters. As you note it enabled a clear and understandable explanation. The stellar code in the Bible is consistent and compelling, but people need the courage to look for it and stare down the bigots. This is where Acharya's pioneering work is such an inspiration.

_________________
The Jesus Mythicist Creed:
The "Jesus Christ" of the New Testament is a fictional composite of characters, real and mythical. A composite of multiple "people" is no one.

The celestial Origins of Religious Belief
ZG Part 1
Jesus: Hebrew Human or Mythical Messiah?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 8:01 am 
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Tat, I have replied to your comments at the thread on Blavatsky and the Great Year.


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