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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 1:55 am 
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PM'd ya.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 1:27 am 
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Hello there everybody! Using citations from my CIE book and video 3 from this Godalmighty series, I have been refuting this Youtube Christian apologetic called labarum312 who is featured in this video series. The subject of his upload is “Pagan Parallels And Luxor Temple.” He keeps on bringing these sophisticated refutations, but with practically no citations for his claims. I’m having some fun!


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 2:46 am 
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Hello there, jlm. You flatter me, but don't go getting me in trouble, Albert and I have already come to somewhat of an understanding and just agreed to let bygones be bygones.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 10:11 pm 
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Unfortunately, at the end I got p.o. with him and called him a fraud because he kept on ignoring compromising evidence or simply dismissing it using a cleverly disguised “because I said so” statement. For example, he dismissed A. H. Sayce as an outdated Assyriologyst influenced by the Victorian era. Oh well!


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 12:01 pm 
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Yet another troll tries and fails to object to the facts-
http://www.youtube.com/all_comments?v=H-x4Sb6-VpM

So our friend VoiceofReason was kind of enough to take up the burden of dealing with him-





Jesus, the kid even comments
Quote:
"So let me get this right.... Gifts = Kings? People can and must carry only one gift? 2 people can't carry 3 gifts?"


For crying out loud, I dealt with THAT VERY OBJECTION @7:57 to 9:40 in that same video! Clearly he did not watch the complete video or even the complete segment here that Galinor posted. He just jumped & skipped around for things he THOUGHT he could object to. Even if he denies that and claims he watched the whole thing, it's clear he did not, but simply let the film play all the way through from beginning to end, which is NOT the same thing. If you don't pay attention, then it doesn't mean shit.

BTW, this particular troll is not a xian, but one of those 'anti-ZGM' atheists.

BTW, in case he ever stumbles across this, my video was not about Zeitgeist, but simply about comparative mythology, so while there is some overlap in subject matter, I do not speak on behalf of Zeitgeist nor do they speak for me.

But I also enjoyed this comment refuting him-
Quote:
"The whole 'NT doesn't number the kings only the gifts' seems to ignore parsimony for the very fact that the very tradition of calling the magi the three kings stemmed from the number of gifts mentioned in the NT, did it not? I mean, in spite of that being something recorded by later generations of xians, where did those later xians get the number of 3 kings from? Was it just arbitrary? Was it taken directly from the stars or from paganism without the middle man of the New Testament? Occam's razor indicates the later xians got 3 kings from the New Testament's 3 gifts. Those later generations were just following parsimony. But regardless, how late or early this xian tradition may or may not have been wasnt the point argued by Zeitgeist, as I recall. The film was just arguing that it had a correlation to Orion's belt. How accurate that correlation may be is another topic in itself, but the point here is, how early or late the 3 kings tradition is entirely irrelevant."


Good point. The very reason there even IS an argument over the three kings or that the three kings motif even exists in Christianity is BECAUSE the post-New Testament Christians were obviously basing that UPON the number of gifts, otherwise, what WERE they basing it on? As an anti-Zeitgeist fellow, he clearly doesn't think they would have gotten it directly, or even indirectly, from the stars, so where'd it come from if not the number of gifts in the NT?


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 10:54 pm 
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Quote:
I denied your video response because it was completely off topic. I never said anything about economic predictions anyways. It's what you would call a strawman, hypocrite. It's like clockwork Devin. Every time I make a video people ask me why I waste my time on you guys as if I'm picking on the handicapped. One person compaired it to AronRa debating QQOOQQ, I can't deny the parallel anymore.

I'm not going to waste anymore time on you guys, have fun.


That was his response to my video. So not only does he refuse to even acknowledge that he took my statements out of context throughout that entire video, he continues to do it reagrdless of the fact that the part of the video he was talking about was about the methods he was referring too that the Austrian School uses.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 3:33 pm 
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The truth is that ancient Egyptian pagans corrupted the story of the savior or messiah, just like the Sumerians and the Babylonians corrupted the Hebrew story of creation as evident in the
Ebla tablets found in Syria, which Pre dates Egyptian and Sumerian creation stories.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:25 pm 
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Lawofcausality wrote:
The truth is that ancient Egyptian pagans corrupted the story of the savior or messiah, just like the Sumerians and the Babylonians corrupted the Hebrew story of creation as evident in the
Ebla tablets found in Syria, which Pre dates Egyptian and Sumerian creation stories.


Can I ask you for the source for the claim that it pre-dates Egyptian & Sumerian creation stories?

I ask because just looking at the Wikipedia article says:
Quote:
They all date to the period between ca. 2500 BC and the destruction of the city ca. 2250 BC.[4] ... Dumper, Michael; Stanley, Bruce E. (2007), Cities of the Middle East and North Africa: A Historical Encyclopedia (p.141)


And if accurate, 2500-2250 BC most certainly does not pre-date the earliest of Egyptian & Sumerian creation stories.

Moreover, the article also says that much of the contents are in Sumerian, so there actually wouldn't be a dichotomy there with Sumer, no?

Plus, the description of its contents made no mention of containing or validating the Hebrew creation stories.

What was mentioned was that there was controversy over whether or not some of the biblical patriarchs were mentioned, with the result being that the consensus largely dismisses such claims.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:33 pm 
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Lawofcausality wrote:
The truth is that ancient Egyptian pagans corrupted the story of the savior or messiah, just like the Sumerians and the Babylonians corrupted the Hebrew story of creation as evident in the
Ebla tablets found in Syria, which Pre dates Egyptian and Sumerian creation stories.

Not following the logic here.
Quote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebla_tablets
Two languages appeared in the writing on the tablets: Sumerian, and a previously unknown language that used the Sumerian cuneiform script (Sumerian logograms or "Sumerograms") as a phonetic representation of the locally spoken Ebla language.[citation needed] The latter script was initially identified as proto-Canaanite by professor Giovanni Pettinato, who first deciphered the tablets, because it predated the Semitic languages of Canaan, like Ugaritic and Hebrew.

It's Sumerian script which pre-dates anything Ugaritic or Hebrew. How do you figure that a Sumerian script pre-dates both Egyptian and Sumerian creation stories therefore proving the Hebrew account (a much later account mind you) as the forerunner to them all?
Quote:
They all date to the period between ca. 2500 BC and the destruction of the city ca. 2250 BC.[4]

And of course:
Quote:
Biblical archaeology
Rituals like the release of a scape goat laden with impurities[10] in purification rites connected with a wedding and enthronement were immediately recognized as ancient Near Eastern parallels to Hebrew practice in the first millennium, recorded in Leviticus 16.

The application of the Ebla texts to specific places or people in the Bible occasioned controversy, focused on whether the tablets made references to, and thus confirmed, the existence of Abraham, David and Sodom and Gomorrah among other Biblical references.[8] The sensationalist claims were coupled with delays in the publication of the complete texts, and it soon became an unprecedented academic crisis.[2] The political context of the modern Arab–Israeli conflict also added fire to the debate, turning it into a debate about the "proof" for Zionist claims to Palestine.[8] Among the most notable claims were that the attested presence of "yā" in Eblaite names was a supposed form of Yahweh (a claim that has since been shown to be purely speculative);[11] the election of local kings, claimed to be uniquely reminiscent of practices in early Israel – and a mythological introduction to a hymn to the creator deity at Ebla, said to be akin to the account of creation in Genesis.[2] However, much of the initial media excitement about supposed Eblaite connections with the Bible, based on preliminary guesses and speculations by Pettinato and others, is now widely deplored as generated by "exceptional and unsubstantiated claims" and "great amounts of disinformation that leaked to the public".[12] The present consensus is that Ebla's role in biblical archaeology, strictly speaking, is minimal.[2]

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The Jesus Mythicist Creed:
The "Jesus Christ" of the New Testament is a fictional composite of characters, real and mythical. A composite of multiple "people" is no one.

The celestial Origins of Religious Belief
ZG Part 1
Jesus: Hebrew Human or Mythical Messiah?


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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 7:02 am 
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There is rather serious problem with the 'Virgin Mary Virgin Isis,' Bibliotecapleyedes article.

Here is the problem:

As stated by professor of Old Testament and Catholic Theology at the University of Bonn Dr. G. Johannes Botterweck, in the Theological Dictionary of the Old Testament:

...The Pyramid Texts speak of "the great virgin" (hwn.t wr.t) three times (682c, 728a, 2002a...); she is anonymous, appears as the protectress of the king, and is explicitly called his mother once (809c). It is interesting that Isis is addressed as hwn.t in a sarcophagus oracle that deals with her mysterious pregnancy.


If you click on the Theological Dictionary of the Old Testament link, you will find no such statement by Dr. G. Johannes Botterweck, and I have checked all 15 volumes, nothing! Where was this sourced from? I think it is important to resolve this.

Kind regards

Michael Sherlock

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http://michaelsherlockauthor.blogspot.jp/


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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 9:53 am 
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There's no problem at all, it's right there where Acharya's citations said it is- Volume 2, pg.338-339. That link is to the Google Books preview, which for some reason has changed its settings so that those two pages are not available in the search. Maybe the publishers figured out those were money shots because of this very quote and how many people look it up thanks to Acharya, so now it's no longer free.

Luckily for us, I still have my screencaps from 2010 that I made to use in the Youtube videos I was making at the time.

Image
Image

And here's the Abydos wall (Isis saying "I am the Great Virgin"/"hwn.t wrt") and the Brehmner-Rhind Papyrus translation referenced in the above.

Image


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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 10:08 am 
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That is great news! Thanks for that. I have not got around to buying the series, as my priorities lie elsewhere at the moment. Thank you so much for clearing this up! Ok, keep those screencaps, because apologists are going to eventually make the same mistake I did!

Thanks again.

Michael Sherlock

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http://michaelsherlockauthor.blogspot.jp/


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 11:40 am 
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Albert has published a book on his anti-Zeitgeist part 1 tirade:

Code:
This Is the Sun?: Zeitgeist and Religion (Volume I: Comparative Religion)
http://www.amazon.com/This-The-Sun-Zeitgeist-Comparative/dp/110533967X/ref=tmm_pap_title_0/182-1923393-0185764?ie=UTF8&qid=1334593553&sr=1-1

http://www.lulu.com/shop/albert-mcilhenny/this-is-the-sun-zeitgeist-and-religion-volume-i-comparative-religion/paperback/product-20037055.html


This Is the Sun (Volume I) Paperback Release


Damn, I wish all the videos in this thread worked. I've removed this thread from the "sticky" zone for that reason - unless or until those videos are back up. We need them badly about now.

* I have re-moved this thread from the "sticky" posts at the top specifically due to the fact that none of the videos work anymore, which was a major part of this thread.

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The Mythicist Position
Christ in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:38 pm 
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I've seen it. I also skimmed the previews on Amazon. It mostly consists of just trying to trace the origins of "pagan parallels" back to outdated ideas that developed during the height of Renaissance occultism, before the Rosetta Stone was discovered and thus before accurate info on Egypt could be discerned.

It contains very little in the way of actually trying to factually rebut the parallels themselves.

At least, as I said, just based on his videos and preview snippets of the book.

So in that respect, the approach is not too different from how he approached my videos, instead of actually addressing the parallels (which he couldn't since I provided primary sources and current scholarly comments) he focused on trivial matters that in themselves don't even demonstrate parallels, such as Augustine, using the Gregorian or Julian as a starting point to work out dates, etc.

In all of the videos he made about me, only one, ONLY one, criticism of his actually checked out. The rest were complete misrepresentations of me (such as the Augustine bit) or repeating his own errors out of ignorance (such as the three days bit).

That one error that checked out was that (and to this day I still don't know why I did it, other than being so busy it slipped through the cracks) I did start with a Gregorian date, for some reason, rather than a Julian date, even though my end results were working with Julian dates.

And actually, the "Gregorian" dates I was using, were simply called Gregorian in name only, and actually were Julian dates because Stellarium automatically does convert to Julian time when you go back to a date past the late 16th century when the Gregorian was implemented. (But the starting dates were still incorrect though.)

And here is why I know Albert was just scrambling to discredit me as a person and not to address the thesis overall, even on this sub-point about Epogomenal days. Albert never bothered to correct it. He showed the error, but never a correction.

And that's because my point would still work if the error was removed. Yep, remember that the point I was making where the error was made was that the Egyptian calendar wandered through the natural year and thus every now and again the Epagomenal days, including Horus's birthday, could fall on the winter solstice. That's it. I even noted that such a coincidence was arbitrary and no particular significance was likely placed on it since it also fell on every other day as well. My point was simply that folks who have tried to bring up Horus' Epagominal birthday as though it means he had no winter solstice birthday, but only summer birthdays, was wrong. Something Albert never acknowledged was true- that in spite of a small amount of easily correctable erroneous math, the point I was trying to make still stands- Horus had a winter solstice birthday.

And because the Egyptian Calendar wanders, all you've got to do is work backwards from the starting points given to us by authors like Ptolemy, and eventually you'll find a year in which the Epagomenals fell on the winter solstice. Just stay focused and not let your mind wander and slip up and mix Gregorian dates with Julian dates as I had.

I did the math once shortly after Albert's first vid about this (around a year and a half ago by now), using exclusively Julian dates all the way through, and still a got a year in which Horus's birthday fell on the winter solstice, surprise, surprise. It just simply wasn't the year of the death of the particular king I used. It was a little later, on into the first Intermediate Period. That's fine, the Coffin Texts, which start around that time, also mention the Epagomenal days too. And given how many of them there were I'm sure one could be found dating to around that time, so we simply switch out the Pyramid Texts, which I was using, for Coffin Texts.

So in summary, all of Albert's other "criticisms" were dubious, and the one & only legitimate one did not refute the point I was making there, is easily correctable, and once corrected, the point is validated and the video keeps on rolling.

But frankly, making videos was tedious and I always cringed when ever I thought about taking the time to edit the video to make the correction. Still not looking forward to doing it, and don't know when or if I'll ever get around to it. However, I'm sure as hell not going to put it back up with a known error in it. Even though Albert leaves up his vids when errors are exposed (even ones he concedes to, such as the Hornung Credo business). Sorry, I care too much about accuracy to do that myself.


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