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 Post subject: Jesus as a morning star
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 2:07 pm 
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Jesus

Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 3:09 pm
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So Jesus could be a sun, but internal sources say, that He was rather compared to Venus planet (or other close quess as a Mercurius): Rev. 2:28, 22:16 and 2 Peter 1:19 because they both were morning stars, light bringers, Lucifers.

Same star was referred on Isaiah 14:12 as an evening star. Probably a reason why some cults told that Jesus and Satan were brothers.

Only one part on Bible I found was allegating Jesus as a sun namely Matthew 17:2 "And he was transfigured before them, and his face shone like the sun, and his clothes became white as light."

Little bit complicated thing when thinking Jesus as a sun is this phrase John 21:4: "As the sun was rising, Jesus stood on the shore. The disciples didn't realize that it was Jesus." Was there two suns, one rising and other standing on shore? Or should it be read like "When sun was rising and seemed to be standing on shore, disciplines didnt realize he as a myth was sun"?


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 2:52 pm 
Hi Markoman

Did you mean that Jesus is "like" the sun, or Jesus "IS" the sun.

I only read into your quote that the authors were using the hyperbole of their time, that is to say it was almost a must that Jesus be compared to the sun. I assume if our planet had two main stars Jesus would be compared to both, if we had no sun he would be the brightest, or all of them?


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:02 pm 
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DanielHopkins wrote:
Hi Markoman

Did you mean that Jesus is "like" the sun, or Jesus "IS" the sun.

I only read into your quote that the authors were using the hyperbole of their time, that is to say it was almost a must that Jesus be compared to the sun. I assume if our planet had two main stars Jesus would be compared to both, if we had no sun he would be the brightest, or all of them?


Hi Daniel

Either way, it wasn't my point exactly. On Matthew its clear original text says shone "like" the sun, but when reading Peter and Revelations Jesus "is" a morning star. My point was just to play with the idea of replacing Jesus with a word sun and see how it fits to the text and story.

Its interesting what you mentioned about stars, that on sky are ordered by brightness so that Venus is the brightest, Mercurius however is on tail. Finally Sirius and Canopus are brighter than Saturn. Now questions goes, why Jesus wasn't Sirius? In Egypt this star was extremely important because of "Its annual appearance just before dawn at the June 21 solstice". It was kind of light bringer as well, plus life bringer in a form of water.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_brightest_stars


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:19 pm 
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The writer could have meant Sirius around the summer solstice, in way that Horus was associated with the Sothic cycle running between solstices.

But also we have to consider that Venus went by the term "morning star" and Lucifer was associated with it. And the sun is also viewed as the bright morning star in certain ways. But in anycase what is clear is that there's an astrotheological intention at work with the writer(s) in question.

_________________
The Jesus Mythicist Creed:
The "Jesus Christ" of the New Testament is a fictional composite of characters, real and mythical. A composite of multiple "people" is no one.

The celestial Origins of Religious Belief
ZG Part 1
Jesus: Hebrew Human or Mythical Messiah?


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 6:34 pm 
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There is no contradiction between Jesus being represented by a star and by the sun. Other deities of the time had multiple associations as well.

While the following was written in reference to the Mithraic bull specifically, the same point that's relevant here atm applies equally to any divinity of the time & culture back then.

As historian of ancient Rome, Roger Beck, wrote in his essay The Rise and Fall of the Astral Identifications of the Tauroctonous Mithras, on page 240 of Beck on Mithraism: Collected Works with New Essays:
Quote:
"Argument 5 The polysemy of symbols: a symbol can have several referents ('meanings'), and these can be in play concurrently. The law of non-contradiction does not apply. Thus, the bull slain by Mithras can - and I think did - signify both Taurus and the Moon. Moreover, two symbols in the same context can refer to the same thing. Redundancy in symbolism is not a mistake. In the tauroctony the bull as well as the bust of Luna can symbolize the Moon."


Even Osiris was identified with Orion, as well as the Sun (during the night, when the sun was in the underworld, Re merged with Osiris at that time), as well as with the Moon.

Horus was likewise referred to in the Pyramid Texts as the Morning Star (Utt. 519:1207, Faulkner), yet also as the Sun, when he merges with Re at his zenith point (Utt. 437:804, 455:853-54, Faulkner).

And the Pyramid Texts likewise identify the deceased king for whom the texts are written & recited, with all of the above, since he was identified with both Horus and Osiris- Horus in life, and Osiris in death & resurrection.

Other texts besides the PT affirm all of the above identifications as well, I am just the most familiar with the PT, so they are my go-to texts.

Anyway, the point is, in ancient religious thinking, it was no contradiction to have more than one astronomical body associated with a particular god.

Also, one other text which was used by Christians to associate Christ with the sun was Malachi 4:2, "But for you who revere my name, the sun of righteousness will rise with healing in its wings."


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