Freethought Nation

presented by Acharya S and TruthBeKnown.com, online since 1995

It is currently Sat Feb 24, 2018 4:09 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


hello

Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 82 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: "The Great Year"
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 5:38 pm 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2009 8:41 pm
Posts: 804
Valhall

Thanks for raising the Aesir.

I discuss the relation between Valhalla and Yggdrasil in my paper The Gas Giant Planets, the Great Year and the Holy City as follows:

Quote:
(p7) Valhalla is an interesting cosmic example of how planetary cycles are coded in to mythology. The 540 gates of Valhalla sit atop the world tree Yggdrasil. In terms of the Jupiter-Saturn cycle of almost 20 years, the world tree can be seen as a braided triple helix of Jupiter and Saturn, as indicated in this photograph of a temporal model of the solar system. In the model, the sun is the central pole, surrounded by Jupiter, Saturn and Neptune in their orbits over 179 years. Every sixty years, seen in the coloured woollen ladder in the upper left of the photograph, Jupiter and Saturn meet again about ten degrees on from their third last meeting. Put together, with their conjunctions as the rungs of a ladder in space, Jupiter and Saturn form three braided ladders which come together with Neptune every third rung after 179 years. In the diagram the green-red-blue-orange coloured thread connects JS conjunctions. The purple thread = Jupiter-Neptune conjunctions, and black thread =Saturn-Neptune. Three sets of three JS rungs evenly spaced around the circle form three nine rung ladders every 537 years, or every 540 years if 20 years is considered the base period. These ladders appear in the myth of Odin, Baldur and the Norns as the sacrificial rope cross of the world tree Yggdrasil.


I first published this material at http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php ... ost1473554


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: "The Great Year"
PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 8:12 am 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2009 8:41 pm
Posts: 804
This post opens discussion of the relation between the annual and precessional heat cycles of the earth. Annually, heat follows a cycle with maxima and minima one month after the solstices. To illustrate the monthly structure of annual average temperature, this diagram shows average daily temperature in the small town of Ada Minnesota, over ninety years. This data is just for one location, but it could be considered typical. We see here that the curve is one month later than the cycle of light. Where the light minimum is at the winter solstice between Sagittarius and Capricorn, the heat minimum is between Capricorn and Aquarius. This lag means that we are now at the opening of an age with both Aquarius and Capricorn character, and are reaching the end of an age with Pisces and Aquarius character. This helps to explain the relation between Jesus (Pisces) and John the Baptist (Aquarius) as both providing guiding themes for the Age.

Attachment:
Ada Minnesota Temperature Zodiac Cycle.GIF
Ada Minnesota Temperature Zodiac Cycle.GIF [ 75.03 KiB | Viewed 2250 times ]

The trend line exhibits a clear temporal reflection around the maximum point between Cancer and Leo and the minimum point between Capricorn and Aquarius. Vertical axes drawn through these points display reflective similarity: In addition to the signs adjacent to the turning points, we also see mirroring of Aries = Scorpio, Taurus = Libra, Gemini = Virgo, and Pisces = Sagittarius. Because of the relation to the solstices as drivers of annual cycles of heat and cooling, it is convenient to represent the data using the periods of the tropical zodiac. These month long periods are purely physical products of the solstices and equinoxes. The fifteen months or signs shown in the diagram above begin at the March equinox and end at the June solstice.

Due to precession of the equinox, we can consider the climate cycle of solar insolation, the amount of light reaching the earth at the summer solstice, against this graph. By reversing the order of the annual cycle, the shape matches the backwards movement of the sun through the signs of the zodiac over this time period. Because of its combination with the ellipticity of earth’s orbit, precession of the equinox is a primary driver of the long term climate cycles seen in glaciation as discovered by Milankovitch..

In order to match the annual cycle with the precession cycle, the point of the annual cycle that is coldest, the tropical Capricorn-Aquarius cusp, now located in early sidereal Capricorn, is matched to the present insolation minimum. . So, in terms of earth’s heat cycle, we are now entering the Age of Capricorn.

This analysis illustrates the complexity of matching annual cycles to the Great Year. Conventionally, we are now reaching the end of the Age of Pisces and the dawn of the Age of Aquarius, as per the position of the March equinox. , Symbolically, this model of the relationship between the seasons and the signs requires that we see the end of winter and the beginning of spring as the main turning point in the annual cycle. This equinox cycle can be termed the cycle of life. A second way to visualize the cycle is the cycle of light. The shortest day, 21 December, is on this model the bottom of the cycle. The solstice point is now precessing from Sagittarius into Scorpio, indicating we are moving into the solstitial age of Scorpio-Taurus, matching the equinoctial age of Aquarius-Leo and establishing the four living creatures at the cardinal points of the sky. A third method, per Milankovitch, sees the low point as the solstice-perihelion conjunction, which occurred in 1300 AD, compressing the Great Year insolation period to 21,000 years due to the progression of the perihelion. A fourth method, that shown here, uses actual temperature records to establish the earth’s annual cycle of heat, as a basis to compare to the longer observed cycles of climate, in which changes in insolation drive changes in temperature.

The overlay of these various methods of analyzing the Great Year produces a rich tapestry of overlapping signals. They all have an element of truth, inasmuch as all are empirical.
Attachment:
Earth Heat Cycle over Great Year.GIF
Earth Heat Cycle over Great Year.GIF [ 110.05 KiB | Viewed 2250 times ]


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: "The Great Year"
PostPosted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 2:57 am 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2009 8:41 pm
Posts: 804
With apologies for inflicting scientific detail, this diagram provides an accurate and comprehensive summary of Earth's orbital cycle. It is from REVIEWS OF GEOPHYSICS, VOL. 26, NO. 4, PAGES 624-657, NOVEMBER 1988 MILANKOVITCH THEORY AND CLIMATE A. Berger Institut d'Astronomiee t de Geophysiqu G Lema•tre, Universite Catholique de Louvain Louvain-la-Neuve, Belgium

Attachment:
Orbital cycle.gif
Orbital cycle.gif [ 25.07 KiB | Viewed 2235 times ]


Fig. 8. Elements of the Earth's orbit. The orbit of the Earth, E, around the Sun, S, is represented by the ellipse PyEA, P being the perihelion and A the aphelion. Its eccentricity e is given by (a 2 - b2)l/2/a, a being the semimajor axis and b the semi minor axis. WW and SS are the winter and summer solstice, respectively; y is the vernal equinox. WW, SS, and y are located where they are today. SQ is perpendicular to the ecliptic, and the obliquity s is the inclination of the equator upon the ecliptic; i.e., s is equal to the angle between the Earth's axis of rotation SN and SQ. Parameter ω is the longitude of the perihelion relative to the moving vernal equinox, and is equal to π + ψ. The annual general precession in longitude ψ, describes the absolute ω motion of y along the Earth's orbit relative to the fixed stars. The longitude of the perihelion, π, is measured from the reference vernal equinox of A.D. 1950 and describes the absolute motion of the perihelion relative to the fixed stars. For any numerical value of ω, 180° is subtracted for a practical purpose: observations are made from the Earth, and the Sun is considered as revolving around the earth (Berger 1980 b) .


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: "The Great Year"
PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 4:42 pm 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2009 8:41 pm
Posts: 804
From http://www.booktalk.org/post83599.html#p83599

tat tvam asi wrote:
I think you need to clarify some sort of belief statement for how this changes Christianity's theme of fall and redemption. If you're talking about something along the lines of a religious reformation based on focusing on the empirical observations of the earth and cosmos mentioned in the myths, then how does this change Christianity's belief system? What does it mean to:
Robert Tulip wrote:
...draw together belief, religion and philosophy into a new synthesis against an empirical scientific framework.


You may as well explain it.


To explain the relation between empirical observations of the earth and cosmos and the belief system of Christianity, please let me refer to the diagram on page 4, which annotates the scientific diagram of the orbital light cycle with mythological markers, showing how trends in Christian myth correspond to empirical trends in terrestrial light. The red line here is the variance in northern summer sunlight over fifty thousand years. It is the main cause of long term climate cycles, as demonstrated by Milankovitch and confirmed by polar ice core data. The northern cycles drive the climate of the whole planet because of the larger land mass of the continents in the northern hemisphere.

What we can see here is that the Christian doctrine of fall and redemption maps on to the actual cycle of light that drives global climate, forming what Interbane recently called an ‘evolutionary algorithm’.

An evolutionary algorithm is the causal process whereby natural change in an ecological niche enables adaptive success and failure of organisms over time. A simple analogy in economics is how the tweaking of a variable like interest rates can have a disproportionate causal effect throughout the economy, in a clear example of how a complex system is sensitive to initial conditions. It is not that individuals decide to influence inflation and employment in response to interest rates, but rather that the change at the base of the money supply has a ripple effect throughout the economy, producing aggregate impacts in a partially predictable way.

The ‘initial conditions’ of religious ideation are the natural economic conditions of life, seen in long term climate trends. The hypothesis begins with the assumption that over planetary history, life gets easier as we move towards global deglaciation, as species colonise temperate latitudes, and harder when we move towards global glacial maxima, as life is forced towards the equator. The last six such cycles are shown in Stephen Oppenheimer’s brilliant diagram of the peopling of the world. These regular cycles are built into the orbital physics of the solar system and calculated by Newtonian mechanics.

The cosmic background to this empirical observation of human spread out of Africa is that, in simplified terms, as the northern summer solstice point gets to the point of the orbit furthest from the sun, we get an ice age, and when the summer solstice is closest to the sun we have an interglacial. These cycles last 21,000 years and are caused by the combination of the wobble of earth’s axis and the rotation of the orbital ellipse. The diagram below shows that, ignoring anthropogenic factors, planetary light is now at a ten thousand year minimum due to this orbital process, and will have a small increase over the next ten thousand years.

This cycle of light is the evolutionary algorithm of Christian eschatology, the natural source of the myth of the incarnation and return of Christ. Mapping Christianity to the red line of planetary light, we can isolate the 7000 year period that conventional faith regards as the entirety of time. Starting with the ‘fall from grace’ that faith believes occurred in about 4000 BC, we see the fall occurred when light was decreasing most rapidly. The evolutionary algorithm here is that, as in previous glaciations, life was adjusting to a more restricted climate. The big complication is that for probably the first time, the human mutations of language and technology in the Neolithic period had completely disrupted and smothered the underlying natural pattern, creating a perception of progress and dominion. And yet the natural worsening pattern was discernable in a steady reduction of freedom and growth of war.

At the time of Christ, the light curve was just starting to flatten in its rate of descent towards the current minimum. Dating this minimum is complex. It occurred at the equator in 1300 AD when the winter solstice was at perihelion, but due to another complex orbital factor, the 41,000 year cycle of obliquity, whereby the earth’s axis shifts between 21 and 24 degrees, the light curve in the northern temperate zone will not reach minimum for several hundred years yet. The insolation minimum point is moving north and is now somewhere near 30 degrees north latitude. South of this point summers are getting longer, while north of it they are still flatlining or getting shorter.

So, matching the myth of Christ to the natural light cycle, we see the time of Christ, considered in millennial terms, was just before planetary rock bottom. ‘The light had come into the world but men preferred darkness’.

How I read all this is that the Christian 7000 year creationist framework is delusory ignorance, a cosmology suited to a dark time, but one that actually responds to a real evolutionary algorithm. The implication is that ancient humanity, stretching back into the dim past of the start of the Holocene at the end of the ice age more than ten thousand years ago, was actually happier and more in tune with nature than we are today. The time of maximum northern summer insolation corresponds to the myth of the Golden Age, what the Egyptians called Zep Tepi or the first time. As light then decreased and the metaphorical gold gave way successively to silver, bronze and iron ages, ancient seers struggled to retain the perception of unity that previously had come naturally. By the time of Christ, superstition was rampant, the allegorical nature of myth was forgotten, and a crude literalism was the only religious message that the masses could comprehend.

Therefore, the seers packaged their understanding into a myth. The story of Christ was invented to depict the avatar of the golden age living in the midst of the iron age, the perfect man among brutes, the visionary among the blind. Recognising somehow that the natural cycle would soon turn towards a new ascent, the seers created a religion, Christianity, that would encode the cosmic wisdom of the golden age in buried form, ready to be understood once the cycle of light had started to ascend again. The impossible teachings of the Sermon on the Mount are about how humanity could live in peace and harmony after ten thousand years of trust and love, suited to a future world of abundance where property and competition have become secondary pursuits.

The gradual evolutionary transition to this utopia is measured in tens of thousands of years. The current problem is that the dominant trend of the world has internalised the downward path of the descending half of the cycle of light, and cannot comprehend the need for a paradigm change. But such a change is essential, simply because reliance on fossil fuels is not sustainable and we require a planetary shift to a way to manage the global atmosphere and push down CO2 levels. This is not a technical fix alone, but needs to transform the dominant patriarchal superstition of Abrahamic faith into scientific understanding. The sense that this cultural clash is apocalyptic is the central message of the book of revelation, with its myth of the war in heaven between Michael and Satan. The forces of Satan are the forces of superstition and delusion, while the forces of Michael are the forces of science and truth. All the ideas in the Bible can be read against this scientific cosmology, understanding the second coming of Jesus Christ as metaphor for natural atonement, for healing of the planet after the ravages of human destruction, as we prepare to ascend over the next ten thousand years towards a new golden age.


Interbane wrote:
an evolutionary algorithm would ensure any competing explanations that included celestial movements were more popular, due to being more believable.


Diagram: viewtopic.php?p=22086#p22086

Further discussion on evolutionary algorithm: http://www.booktalk.org/post83684.html#p83684


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: "The Great Year"
PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2011 5:49 am 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2009 8:41 pm
Posts: 804
Please see youtube powerpoint presentation of the shift of the equinox point across the Great Year.



Here is a discussion about precession and Christianity

J: If you feel there is a lack of familiarity with the material on the precession of the equinox, then you can use this as a teaching opportunity. I think laying the ground work before diving into your theories about Christian astral origins would help everyone get on the same page on this interesting topic. I know it would help me.

RT: That is an excellent suggestion, and I appreciate your guidance on how to discuss this complex material.

J: The precession of the equinoxes were discovered by Hipparchus sometime around 130 BCE. Could you fill me in on what methodology he used to determine this? And just how accurate were his measurements.

RT: Hipparchus' work is lost, but is known from later ancient sources such as Ptolemy. He obtained ancient Babylonian star records, brought to Greece in the wake of Alexander's conquest. Studying this material, Hipparchus observed that the star Spica, the brightest star in the constellation Virgo, was not in the position recorded with respect to the celestial equator. Knowing the age of the Babylonian material, Hipparchus concluded from this observation that the entire celestial sphere, understood in the geocentric cosmology as the outer crystalline sphere, was slowly moving with respect to the equinoxes, the dates in March and September when day and night are equal. This meant that the point where the celestial equator crosses the ecliptic, defining the equinox, was slowly moving backward around the stars. Hipparchus calculated the speed of precession as one degree of arc per century.

We now know that precession is caused by a slow wobble of the axis of the earth like a spinning top, and is caused by gravitational torque exercised by the sun and moon on the 'spare tire' at the earth's equator. The speed of precession is actually one degree of arc per 71.6 years, faster than Hipparchus' estimate of one degree per century. A conventional estimate of the precession speed was one degree per 72 years, producing a cycle period of 25,920 years, a period conventionally known as the Great Year, or the Platonic Year. The current estimate for the Great Year is 25765 years, but the speed is not constant. The Great Year is conventionally divided into twelve Ages of the Zodiac, traditionally estimated at 2160 years each, but more like 2147 years if we use accurate astronomical data.

Ice core data from Antarctica, dating back 800,000 years, provides accurate long term measurement of precession, which is one of the main drivers of long term climate change, as discovered by Milankovitch. Precession combines with the slow rotation of earth's orbital ellipse around the sun to produce a glaciation cycle period of 21,600 years. Warmer periods occur when the northern summer solstice is at perihelion (the point of the orbit closest to the sun) and colder periods occur when the northern winter solstice is at perihelion. The summer solstice, 21 June, was at perihelion at the dawn of the Holocene Epoch about 11,000 years ago, while the winter solstice, 21 December, was at perihelion in 1296 AD, marking the coldest point of this orbital cycle. Perihelion has since advanced to about 3 January.
The astronomer Sir Norman Lockyer, founding Editor of Nature and discoverer of helium, had a close interest in this topic, covered in his book The Dawn of Astronomy. He argues that realignment of Egyptian temples shows that the Egyptians were aware of precession of the equinox.

J: When did the shift from Aries to Pisces occur? There are apparently various ways to calculate this and I have seen dates all over the place.

RT: Yes, there are various ways to calculate it. The shape of the constellation Pisces consists of two lines of stars coming together at an easterly star known as the knot. The first line of stars, known as the easterly fish, runs perpendicular to the ecliptic, the path of the sun, while the second line of stars, the westerly fish, runs parallel to the path of the sun. The equinox point crossed the first fish in 21 AD. However, the knot star is slightly to the east of this point, and the equinox reached a point on the ecliptic closest to the knot star in about 150 BC. After crossing the first fish, the equinox point has tracked along the second fish, and is now near a group of stars known as the circlet. Conventional constellation diagrams show the foot of the lamb, Aries, extending to the point where the equinox crossed the first fish in 21 AD. I have attached a diagram of this moment.
Pisces is a large constellation, occupying more than the thirty degrees of arc assigned to the astrological sign. Some say the equinox will not reach the next constellation, Aquarius, until 2600 AD. However, if we consider the Ages of the Zodiac to be equal divisions of the ecliptic, the Age of Pisces will last for 2147 years. The only known dynamic effect of these ages is on global climate cycles, with period 21600 years. There is no dynamic evidence that this cycle has a natural division into 12, although the question of whether the annual division into months has a dynamic basis is worth investigating.

J: Do you accept David Ulansey's interpretation of Mithraism as an astral religion?

RT: Yes I do. Ulansey argues that Mithraism used the mythic story based on precession of the movement of the equinox from the constellation of Taurus the Bull into Aries the Ram in about 2000 BC as the basis of its ritual of the Tauroctony, the slaying of the Bull. In the sky, Taurus is surrounded by hunters, Perseus, Orion, and in a sense Aries (considered as Ares the God of War). The scorpion shown at the bull's genitals represents the constellation Scorpio, opposite Taurus. The precessional movement of the spring equinox into Aries in the third millennium BC also involved the movement of the autumn equinox from Scorpio into Libra. The identification between Mithra and Sol Invictus or the invincible sun coheres precisely with the Tauroctony as a stellar ritual based on observation of precession of the equinox. Just as Christianity is now 'one age out of date', celebrating an event which occurred 2000 years ago, it appears that Mithraism
was also an old faith at the time of Christ, despite its then recent popularity among the legions.
Other symbols for the conquest of the Bull by the lamb include the story of Moses and the Golden Calf, and the story of Ulysses escaping from the cattle-herding cyclops Polyphemus by holding on to the belly fleece of a Ram.

J: Here are a few more questions I have wondered about. Why were Jesus and John the Baptist said to be born six months apart?

RT: If Jesus represents the first longer day after the winter solstice (Christmas), then John the Baptist represents the first shorter day after the Summer solstice (24 June). Hence 'He must increase but I must decrease' from John 3:30 represents this annual cycle. These days are the turning points of the year, and would have very old mythic resonance in fertility cults.

J: Why was Jesus believed to have been crucified near the vernal equinox?

RT: At the full moon at Easter, the sun is at the spring equinox point, while the moon is opposite, at the autumn equinox point. In tropical astrology, and the Naval Almanac and star charts of right ascension, these points are known as the first points of Aries and Libra. Sidereally, that is with respect to the stars, these points have been precessing by one degree every 71.6 years. Since the time of Christ, the spring equinox has occurred with the sun in the constellation of Pisces and the Moon in Virgo. This matches to the loaves and fishes as Virgo and Pisces as symbols of miraculous abundance.
If we consider Jesus Christ as a fertility God, similar to Osiris and Attis, his death and resurrection at the spring equinox matches to the death and rebirth of the annual cycle, with the end of winter as death of the old year, and the beginning of spring as birth of the new year. So the passion celebrates the eternal cycle of life marked by the equinox. The three day period in hell involves bringing Christmas into the picture, based on the observation that the sunrise reaches its most southerly point at the winter solstice, 21 December, then rises at the same point for three days, and begins its northward journey toward summer on Christmas Day.

J: About what time did the Sign of the Southern Cross disappear for good below the horizon (due to the precession of the equinox) as seen from Jerusalem?

RT: I actually calculated this using the astronomy software SkyGazer 4.5. At the time of Christ, the Southern Cross viewed from Jerusalem rose at about 160 degrees south and was easily seen, It reached 180 degrees south, ie the southern point of the horizon, in about 1500 AD, and has since mostly slipped below the horizon, with just its top star visible from Jerusalem. 10,000 years ago the Southern Cross reached its most northerly point, rising at about 120 degrees south of north. It has not slipped below the horizon "for good" as it rises and falls with the 25765 year period of the Great Year, and will be fully visible from Jerusalem again in several thousand years.

J: Where can I find the constellation of Jesus Christ in the night sky?

RT: As far as I know, there is no constellation of Jesus Christ. However, the constellation of Pisces now rises in the early evening, following the path of the sun. In the northern hemisphere, Pisces crosses the southern sky from left to right, while in the southern hemisphere it crosses the northern sky from right to left. The Southern Cross is another 'constellation of Jesus Christ', which is easily visible close to the south celestial pole from anywhere south of the latitude of Jerusalem. Another constellation that can be associated with Christ is Argo, conventionally Noah's Ark. If the Belt of Orion is considered as the three wise men, and Sirius as the star in the east, they point to the deck of Argo, again visible only from southerly latitudes, which has the shape of a manger, with three stars as wise men worshipping at its head. The invisibility of Argo from Europe has in my view contributed to the forgetting of this story.

J: Which artifacts and art work in the Christian catacombs of Rome indicate an astral religion?

RT: This is not a topic I have studied, so I do not know. However, all the Ichthys symbolism matches to the idea of Christ as avatar of the Age of Pisces. There are also overt astral zodiac symbols in the Greco-Egyptian religion of Serapis, which is a major precursor of Christianity, and in ancient mosaics in Israel.

J: Thanks, and please correct any misunderstandings my questions might imply. Jake

RT: Many thanks Jake for such interesting questions, and I hope my answers are clear. I am very happy to discuss anything that anyone would like to clarify in this material.

Robert Tulip


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: "The Great Year"
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 1:45 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 9:24 pm
Posts: 4525
Location: 3rd rock from the sun
Planets With Two Suns Found

http://www.space.com/14175-alien-planet ... ooine.html

Tatooine found? Planet with twin suns discovered


New Planet Discovered With Two Suns

_________________
2013 Astrotheology Calendar
The Mythicist Position
Christ in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection
Stellar House Publishing at Youtube


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: "The Great Year"
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 3:20 pm 
Offline
Moderator

Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2007 8:17 pm
Posts: 2273
Location: Everywhere
That's awesome!!

_________________
The Jesus Mythicist Creed:
The "Jesus Christ" of the New Testament is a fictional composite of characters, real and mythical. A composite of multiple "people" is no one.

The celestial Origins of Religious Belief
ZG Part 1
Jesus: Hebrew Human or Mythical Messiah?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: "The Great Year"
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:38 pm 
Offline
Jesus

Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 3:09 pm
Posts: 18
One interesting tidbit is the life span of Brahma, which is said to be multiplication of the number 311040: http://www.mcremo.com/vedic.htm

That is simply 12 * 25920 meaning 12 times the Great Year. I have yet to seen any article explaining thru and out the connection between western and eastern world age calculations, but as for now, they all seem to be multiplications of the 60 base system. Do you think these all were "just" mixing these base numbers and simplify things using base number? Does anyone know sources, when 25920 was really used as a number for Great Years? I just happened to read, that Platon himself didn't use it, but rather just used term of Great Year for some big cycle and later Hipparchus, who really "invented" precession, estimated time and used the term of Platon for it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: "The Great Year"
PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 4:50 am 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2009 8:41 pm
Posts: 804
markoman wrote:
One interesting tidbit is the life span of Brahma, which is said to be multiplication of the number 311040: http://www.mcremo.com/vedic.htm

That is simply 12 * 25920 meaning 12 times the Great Year. I have yet to seen any article explaining thru and out the connection between western and eastern world age calculations, but as for now, they all seem to be multiplications of the 60 base system. Do you think these all were "just" mixing these base numbers and simplify things using base number? Does anyone know sources, when 25920 was really used as a number for Great Years? I just happened to read, that Platon himself didn't use it, but rather just used term of Great Year for some big cycle and later Hipparchus, who really "invented" precession, estimated time and used the term of Platon for it.


Hi markoman, welcome. The source for the use of 25920 as the period of the great year is probably modern, based on actual observation of the time it takes the equinox to move through each constellation. This produces the traditional estimate of 2160 years per zodiac age. In fact, the actual period of each age is 2148 years. You are right that this number is based on the Babylonian sexagesimal sixty base counting system that we still use for our clock. 2160 = 6x6x6x10 and is also the sum of the angles of a cube.

Hipparchus did not invent precession, he allegedly discovered it, based on his study of old observations from Babylon of the position of the star Spica in Virgo against the equinox. There is a significant difference between invention and discovery. Hipparchus estimated the period of precession as one degree per century, when in fact the period is one degree per 71.6 years. Precession was definitely known before the Greeks, as Egyptians routinely rebuilt temples to account for it, but it is not clear how well they understood the observational science. It is highly possible that Hipparchus claimed credit for scientific observations made by older civilizations, using material plundered from Babylon by Alexander's invasion.

My view is that ancient vedic writers probably based their concept of the Yuga on correct astronomical observation, but over time this basis was lost, and the period was multiplied by one million years.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: "The Great Year"
PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 7:36 am 
Offline
Jesus

Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 3:09 pm
Posts: 18
Thanks Robert! I have found so much information from this forum already, about things I've been pondering last few years. I'm not sure how active forum is at the moment, but I'd like to get involved on conversations. I posted few observations & questions, but topic is not published yet.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: "The Great Year"
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:35 am 
Offline
Apollo
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 2:02 am
Posts: 351
Location: Bharathavarsham
markoman wrote:
One interesting tidbit is the life span of Brahma, which is said to be multiplication of the number 311040: http://www.mcremo.com/vedic.htm

That is simply 12 * 25920 meaning 12 times the Great Year. I have yet to seen any article explaining thru and out the connection between western and eastern world age calculations, but as for now, they all seem to be multiplications of the 60 base system. Do you think these all were "just" mixing these base numbers and simplify things using base number? Does anyone know sources, when 25920 was really used as a number for Great Years? I just happened to read, that Platon himself didn't use it, but rather just used term of Great Year for some big cycle and later Hipparchus, who really "invented" precession, estimated time and used the term of Platon for it.




There is no ad-hoc mixing of the base 60 number. If you would see, the time span of one "yuga" under the Vedic system has developed in tune with the development of Mathematics and Astronomy in India. The evidence of the same can be seen even in Rig Veda which predates the Babylonian astronomy by thousands of years although the "mainscream" historians would like you to believe otherwise.

The initial measure in terms of time of a yuga was 5 years that is 63 lunar months which was roughly equal to 60 solar months. Later, Yajnavalkya developed the 95 year calendar in which time, he estimated that the sun and moon would return to their original positions. Later as astronomy developed, the relative positions of Jupiter and Saturn were also included which again gave a cycle of 60 years. Over a period of 60 years these planets would return to their original positions together. This cycle was called a Samvatsara and this time span exists to this day in Hindu calendar. Each of these 60 years has a name and they keep repeating in a cycle. The measure of a yuga then became 60 years.

6 samvatsaras or 360 human years then became equal to one Deva varsha or one year of Gods. 6 such Devavarshas or 2160 years was the time estimated for the equinox to move from one zodiac to another. This would give a time span of 2160 x 12 = 25920 years for the equinox to move through the entire zodiac.

The question then would be why 2160 years for one zodiac sign? This was derived from the traditional lunar calendar of Hindus wherein the movement of the moon through the 27 nakshatras is always tracked and the position of sun is derived therefrom. It was observed that it would take 75 and a fraction lunar years for the equinox to shift by one degree within a Nakshatra and 1008 lunar years to pass through an entire nakshatra. Since one zodiac sign of the western system is equal to 2.25 nakshatras, it would take 2268 lunar years for the equinox to shift from one zodiac sign to another. These many lunar years in turn make up 2160 solar years on the basis of the formula fixed at the earliest period of time. ( i.e. 2268 x 60/63 = 2160)

_________________
Janani Janmabhoomishcha Swargadapi Gareeyasi - Being near to your mother in your motherland is better than being in paradise

Ekavarnam yatha dugdham binnavarnasu dhenushu | tataiva dharmavaichitryam tatvam ekam param smritam ||
Just as milk is of only one colour though obtained from cows of different colours so also the peculiarities of different religious thoughts lead to the same one ultimate truth - Mahabharatha


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: "The Great Year"
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 2:34 pm 
Offline
Jesus

Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2011 3:39 pm
Posts: 12
As I skimmed over this thread with great interest, I thought I'd give you some interesting information on the SUN and vitemin "d" :D

Vitamin D definitely is linked to mood/depression... and overall health. If this doesn't help with this post - at least you learned something about vitamin D :?

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/deconstr ... z1wBriGT3K

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/vitamin- ... z1wBsYB0kf


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:54 pm 
Offline
Moderator

Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2007 8:17 pm
Posts: 2273
Location: Everywhere
Here's a lecture series about the precession of the equinox and the Great Year for anyone interested in furthering their understanding of it:

Full Playlist Here

This may be one of the best introductory videos about the Great Year circulating on youtube...

_________________
The Jesus Mythicist Creed:
The "Jesus Christ" of the New Testament is a fictional composite of characters, real and mythical. A composite of multiple "people" is no one.

The celestial Origins of Religious Belief
ZG Part 1
Jesus: Hebrew Human or Mythical Messiah?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:17 am 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2009 8:41 pm
Posts: 804
Tat Tvam Asi wrote:
Here's a lecture series about the precession of the equinox and the Great Year for anyone interested in furthering their understanding of it:

Full Playlist Here

This may be one of the best introductory videos about the Great Year circulating on youtube...


Thanks Tat, I watched this lecture and agree it is an excellent introduction to scholarship on the Great Year as an emerging cosmic paradigm. It covers many topics we have discussed here, such as the link to the four living creatures, the Yuga cycle, the glacier cycle, etc.

I should note that Randall Carlson suggests the 25920 year period derived from the sexagesimal 60 base counting system is the exact length of the Great Year. In fact the Great Year is estimated at 25765 years, 0.611% shorter than the traditional estimate. Natural cycles do not match up exactly to the sacred geometry, although the approximation is close. 25920 = 2^6 x 3^4 x 5

The same issue of exact timing applies to glacial cycles. Because earth's orbital ellipse is itself spinning with a period of 113,000 years, the solstices 'catch up' to the perihelion after varying periods of 19,000, 22,000 and 24,000 years. These glacial cycles match to the Yuga cycle of light and dark, and are driven primarily, but not solely, by precession. I have just read a superb book, Ice Ages and Astronomical Cycles, by Muller and McDonald, which explains the science extremely well.

I should take this opportunity to link to the post I have just made on Precession of the Moon in Christian Theology. It contains some new claims for how astrotheology informed Christianity. viewtopic.php?f=21&t=4222


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: "The Great Year"
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:07 pm 
Offline
Moderator

Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2007 8:17 pm
Posts: 2273
Location: Everywhere
Robert, here's another video I watched recently that works up to precession as the grand finale realization near the end. But what they touch on - that I don't recall us ever touching on - is the equatorial type line running around the globe from Easter Island, to Peru, through Dogon country, Giza, and beyond until coming back to Easter Island again (most of this is covered from 1:00 forward). And how this equitorial type line corresponds to magnetic north, as opposed to the north polar axis. It's like an offset equitorial line, perhaps purposely marked out around the globe to call attention to magnetic north.

What are your thoughts on the conclusions presented here?


_________________
The Jesus Mythicist Creed:
The "Jesus Christ" of the New Testament is a fictional composite of characters, real and mythical. A composite of multiple "people" is no one.

The celestial Origins of Religious Belief
ZG Part 1
Jesus: Hebrew Human or Mythical Messiah?


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 82 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group