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PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 2:54 pm 
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Part 1

Part 2

Part 3

Part 4

Part 5

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The Jesus Mythicist Creed:
The "Jesus Christ" of the New Testament is a fictional composite of characters, real and mythical. A composite of multiple "people" is no one.

The celestial Origins of Religious Belief
ZG Part 1
Jesus: Hebrew Human or Mythical Messiah?


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 10:43 pm 
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Good series overall. A lot of it is a carry over from the Magical Egypt series, but there's newer info tossed around. One point of contention is the claim that the winter solstice of 2012 will align the sun with the galactic center which is the hub of video #5. Robert Tulip has pointed out and demonstrated that the sun rose in Ophiuchus already back in 1998 or thereabouts - I have to look back at it. With that being the case I don't understand how so many people are getting away with claiming the alignment is still ahead set to occur just over a year from now. It's just a matter of pulling it up on the astronomy software to see who's right or wrong...

As for the radical early dating of the sphinx, I'm uncertain. I wasn't really aware of the problem of the cause ways originally ending on the banks of the Nile, but it makes sense. That obviously shows a great antiquity considering how long it would take the Nile to have moved from there to it's current location. I don't have a problem with the idea of Egypt inheriting the remnants of much older civilization, but the burden of proof is on Buvual, West, Cruttenden, and all to get this into mainstream scholarship. But I think that if they're right then the truth will eventually rise to the top on it's own accord.

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The Jesus Mythicist Creed:
The "Jesus Christ" of the New Testament is a fictional composite of characters, real and mythical. A composite of multiple "people" is no one.

The celestial Origins of Religious Belief
ZG Part 1
Jesus: Hebrew Human or Mythical Messiah?


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 3:14 am 
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A good read is Alan Alford's The Phoenix Solution.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 9:35 am 
In the topic of "Unifying Myth / One Story? (Saturn Hypothesis)" - http://freethoughtnation.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=2680&p=24122#p24122 Pages 5-6 these video´s also are attached and I just will express my thankfulness for having the opportunity watching this. Thanks Tat!
Native wrote:
Tat Tvam Asi wrote:
I think you'll find it especially interesting that in episode 4, near the end (35:00 forward), they go into the Milky Way in Egyptian cosmology and comment on how Isis is linked to the Milky Way as the mother of all:
Part 4

Tat,
You were quite right indeed! This is the first time ever I´ve heard of others stating very clearly and exactly what I´ve claimed and stated for about 20 years or so. Thanks a lot for your very responsive attitude and linking forward the issues that you think is important.

I was simply moved to tears of relief and confirmation when officially hearing this.

I´ve even for some years stated the creation from within the galactic centre in several astronomical and cosmological discussion forums and scientifically debates: Everything in our galaxy is formatted from inside the galactic centre – with the special and scientific contradictive implication, that our Solar System was not formatted via a presolar molecular cloud that suddenly collapsed via gravity as claimed by scientists. Link to my article about this issue: http://vixra.org/abs/1109.0013

- With this in mind I think we better can go forward in our common search for ancient and modern common knowledge.

Thanks again!


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 10:41 am 
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Zep Tepi - Egyptian Creation Myths



Here is another interesting short video on the subject.

And some quotations from the book too:
Quote:
The Egypt Code
At any rate, the goddess Seshat is always shown dressed in a leopard skin which clings tight to her body...The yellow spots on the leopard skin are sometimes shown as stars, apparently symbolizing the leopards and Seshat's ability to see in the dark. On her head she wears a golden tiara with an antenna-like stem that has a seven pointed star or rosette at the top. ... Such an association with the sky and Seshat's royal duties is also evident in the 'stretching of the chord' ceremony, since, as we shall see, this entailed observing the motion and position of the circumpolar stars.

And on page 13 Bauval writes:
Quote:
The plough, strickly speaking, is not a constellation. Some astronomers will insist on calling it an asterism because it's seven bright stars are part of the bigger constellation we call the Great Bear or Ursa Major. But to any casual observer it is only those seven stars which stand out, with their distinct pattern of a plough or dipper. ...It was one of three distinct constellations, along with Ursa Minor (the little bear) and Draconis (the dragon), that, in ancient times, revolved perpetually around the north pole of the sky like a wheel.

Page 21:
Quote:
There are only two realistic explanations for this large deviation: either the surveyors were not interested in true north, or, more likely in my view, they were aiming at something else in the sky that was at 4 degrees 35' east from true north. My gut feeling was that the second explanation was probably the right one. Experience had shown time and again that nothing the pyramid builders did was left to chance.


This opens up several things. For one it shows the importance of the northern circumpolar sky to the Egyptians. That in turn puts the Milky Way / Saturnus into focus because the object of attention is the northern circumpolar sky. So this possibly links back to the problem with Talbott's misplacement of the planet Saturn at the pole instead of Saturnus. And it opened up an added depth to the book of Revelation for Robert Tulip and I. The 12 foundational jewels represent the 12 signs of the zodiac in reverse order from Pisces to Aries, so it's well established that the writer(s) were concerned with precession. Then I began asking Robert if it's possible that the Dragon (Draco) and Beast (Ursa Major / Minor) drama in Revelation is address to the effects of precession on the northern circumpolar sky, because we already know that Revelation has strong hints of being an Egyptian and Zoroastrian astrotheologial drama about the end of the Great Year in Aries. We also understand that much of the bible links to Alexandrian origins.

So I began to wonder if it's possible that the same focus on the northern circumpolar sky used by the pyramid builders trickled down into the common era via the book of Revelation. That's when it also became obvious that the Giza Necropolis being arranged to mirror the Milky Way above (see the video at the top of the post) with the Nile below, is also reflected in the book of Revelation with the tree of life growing on both sides of the river and so on. It seems that a great deal of information from the pyramid era filtered down through the mystery schools and eventually ended up documented in the mystery drama of St. John's Revelation. And there is a strong parallel between the Milky Way at creation and the Milky Way during the New Earth and New City scenario at the end of the astrotheological drama. The writer(s) seem privy to the role of the Milky Way in Genesis 1 and extended the symbolism into the text of Revelation. It has to do with the sun, moon, the planets, all of the assorted and numerous back ground stars, and the Milky Way contours and galactic center.
Quote:
Revelation 2
To the church in Ephesus
1"To the angel of the church in Ephesus write:
These are the words of him who holds the seven stars in his right hand and walks among the seven golden lampstands:

Another reference to the northern circumpolar stars of the Plough / Dipper. And here's some general background about the book of Revelation from the CC:
Quote:
The Book of Revelation is Egyptian and Zoroastrian

One can find certain allegorical place names such as "Jerusalem" and "Israel" in the Book of Revelation. Massey has stated that Revelation, rather than having been written by any apostle called John during the 1st Century C.E., is a very ancient text that dates to the beginning of this era of history, i.e. possibly as early as 4,000 years ago.86 Massey asserts that Revelation relates the Mithraic legend of Zarathustra/Zoroaster.87 Hotema says of this mysterious book, which has baffled mankind for centuries: "It is expressed in terms of creative phenomena; its hero is not Jesus but the Sun of the Universe, its heroine is the Moon; and all its other characters are Planets, Stars and Constellations; while its stage-setting comprises the Sky, the Earth, the Rivers and the Sea." The common form of this text has been attributed by Churchward to Horus's scribe, Aan, whose name has been passed down to us as "John."88

...As Pike says, "The apocolypse or Revelations, by whomever written, belongs to the orient and extreme antiquity. It is far older than itself." Higgins concurs:

"That the work of the apocolypse of St. John...is of great antiquity is clearly proved by the fact that it only makes the year 360 days long - the same length that it is made in the third book of Genesis."

In fact, Revelation records the mythos of the precession of the equinoxes, or the "Great Year", and was apparently written to usher in the age of Aries, which began around 4,400 years ago. As Churchward says:

"The drama appears as tremendous in the book of Revelation, because the period ending is on the scale of one Great Year. It is not the ending of the world, but of a Great Year of the world."

Churchward continues:

"The book is and always has been inexplicable, because it was based on the symbolism of the Egyptian Astronomical Mythology without the gnosis, or "meaning which hath wisdom" that is absolutely necessary for an explanation of its subject matter; and because the debris of the ancient wisdom has been turned to account as data for pre-Christian prophecy that was supposed to have its fulfillment in Christian history."


Robert Tulip wrote:
Tat Tvam Asi wrote:
Bauval points out that these stars in Ursa minor (beast) and Draco (dragon) are mentioned in the pyramid texts, along with Orion and Sirius. It would be interesting to pin down where these stars are mentioned in relation to what we find in Revelation about the Beast and Dragon.


The dragon passes its power and throne and authority to the bear in Rev 13:2, in precise correspondence to the movement of the North Celestial Pole from Thuban in Draco to Polaris in Ursa Minor as marked by the pyramid shafts. Thuban was the pole star for most of the Ages of Taurus and Aries, while Polaris is the Pole Star for most of the Ages of Pisces and Aquarius.

Orion and Sirius designate the three magi and the star in the east. In the sky, the line from Orion's Belt through Sirius points to Argo, to a group of four stars sitting on the deck of the ship that corresponds to the coffin of Osiris, Noah's Ark and the Manger of Christ. Argo contains the bright star Canopus, thought by some to be the star of Osiris, as shown in the Dendera Zodiac, but neglected due to its invisibility from Europe. It would be interesting to find out if the pyramids have any marker to Canopus in their design.


Another point of interest, is the Isis and Osiris are associated with Orion and Sirius too, among everything else we've mentioned. To put it all together I'd say that Isis and Osiris were associated with all of these things over different periods and for different reasons. So to argue that Isis is not the moon, or is not sirius, or is not virgo, but only the Milky Way would be an errant claim. It seems more fitting to say that Neith-Isis is the Milky Way, and the Moon, and Sirius, and Virgo in various myths seeking to personify different aspects of existence at different time periods in the myth making.

_________________
The Jesus Mythicist Creed:
The "Jesus Christ" of the New Testament is a fictional composite of characters, real and mythical. A composite of multiple "people" is no one.

The celestial Origins of Religious Belief
ZG Part 1
Jesus: Hebrew Human or Mythical Messiah?


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 5:42 pm 
I would like to recommend 2 great very relevant Mytho-Cosmological books of John O`Neill

"The night of the Gods", Part 1-2

Part 1 can be read online here http://www.archive.org/stream/nightgods00unkngoog#page/n6/mode/1up
Contents: http://www.archive.org/stream/nightgods00unkngoog#page/n9/mode/1up/search/contents

Part 2 can be bought here:

http://www.amazon.com/Night-Gods-Part-John-ONeill/dp/076615159X
Contents: http://www.amazon.com/Night-Gods-Part-John-ONeill/dp/076615159X#reader_076615159X
(Can partly be read online)


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 7:49 am 
Tat wrote:
Quote:
Another point of interest, is the Isis and Osiris are associated with Orion and Sirius too, among everything else we've mentioned. To put it all together I'd say that Isis and Osiris were associated with all of these things over different periods and for different reasons.

I agree to this.

Imagine this: If Isis represents the southern hemisphere Milky Way figure and Osiris is her brother/husband, he then can represent the northern hemisphere Milky Way figure where Orion is located close to the white/grey Milky Way band.

Orion´s Belt points to Sirius. On the direct opposite direction, via the Celestial Pole, we find Vega in Lyra. Drawing a line from Sirius over the Polar Point to Vega and prolonging this line, this direction point to the Milky Way centre in the star constellation of Sagittarius.
Attachment:
Sirius Vega Line.jpg
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It is my belief that ancient cultures (on the northern hemisphere) have used this line as a kind of “ruler line” just in order to locate the Milky Way centre, from where everything is created in our Milky Way.

- When googling “star myths+sirius+vega”, we find some links. For instants this one: http://www.idialstars.com/vas.htm:“What's especially amazing about Vega and Sirius is that these two beacons point out the path of our solar system's orbit around the center of the Milky Way Galaxy. To a good approximation, Vega marks the Apex of the Sun's Way -- the direction in which the Sun and its accompanying planets move through space. Sirius, on the other hand, spotlights the approximate position of the Solar Antapex -- the direction from which the Sun is traveling. Looking at Vega, we're peering through the windshield of our solar system; and gazing at Sirius, we looking out our rear window”.
Attachment:
Apihelium and Perihelium.GIF
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This Sirius-Vega line has 2 significant annual datum’s of approximately Jan. 4th and July.4th at midnight where this line point towards and away from the Milky Way centre. The datum difference between winter solstice and the 4th of January marks the 12 Days of Christmas (i.e. Dec.25th and Jan. 6th) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve_Days_of_Christmas - where the January 6th marks the end of Epiphany and the revelation of the “son of God”. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epiphany_%28holiday%29

We have now a connection between Orion (The 3 Magi?) that points to Sirius (The Bethlehem Star?) and a connection between “the birth of Jesus” of 25th Dec. and the 12 days of Christmas towards the 6th of Jan. that marks the line to the Milky Way centre and the epiphany revelation day of Jan. 6th that marks “the son of god” revelation.

Could this be a fair explanation of:
Quote:
Another point of interest, is the Isis and Osiris are associated with Orion and Sirius too, among everything else we've mentioned. To put it all together I'd say that Isis and Osiris were associated with all of these things over different periods and for different reasons.

- A further elaboration on this issue could be this:
We have Isis, a Virgin Mother Goddess, the Milky Way Goddess on the southern hemisphere who creates herself and gives birth to everything in the Milky Way and to the "Son of God" without a physical meeting with her husband Osiris, the northern hemisphere Milky Way God, leaving the mytheme of "the son of god and goddess" to further wondering and pondering.

- The mytheme of Osiris being Isis´s brother and husband, could then be explained in the way that they both are born out from the same Primeval Elements in the galactic centre = Brother and Sister and as the 2 hemisphere Milky Way figures they are the heavenly wife and husband and the Greatest God and Goddess.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 11:25 am 
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Before city lights the Milky Way must have been a very central and well acknowledged "light" in the night sky the world over. It still is when you get away from the blasted cities. We get a nice view of it down in the Florida Keys and I enjoy going out by boat and looking at the stars off and away from the Island chain. It's easy to see how the ancients could have viewed the Milky Way as the first light pre-dating the sun, moon, planets, or stars. And it's a good explanation for the Genesis myth with "light" appearing before the sun, moon, or stars. And then it ties in to the Tree of Life in both Genesis and Revelation.

Native wrote:
This Sirius-Vega line has 2 significant annual datum’s of approximately Jan. 4th and July.4th at midnight where this line point towards and away from the Milky Way centre. The datum difference between winter solstice and the 4th of January marks the 12 Days of Christmas (i.e. Dec.25th and Jan. 6th) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve_Days_of_Christmas - where the January 6th marks the end of Epiphany and the revelation of the “son of God”. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epiphany_%28holiday%29

We have now a connection between Orion (The 3 Magi?) that points to Sirius (The Bethlehem Star?) and a connection between “the birth of Jesus” of 25th Dec. and the 12 days of Christmas towards the 6th of Jan. that marks the line to the Milky Way centre and the epiphany revelation day of Jan. 6th that marks “the son of god” revelation.

Seriously, have you read CiE? You entered discussion at BT about CiE but have you actually read what Murdock has written about the Alexandrian Kore and Aion mystery celebration on January 6th, as described by Epiphanius?

http://www.booktalk.org/post94066.html

Some highlights include:
Quote:
On Page 86 of CiE:

“Epiphanius’s of the Kikellia or winter-solstice festival continues with him relating that the celebration took place at the large Egyptian city of Alexandria “at the so-called Virgin’s shrine.” …Epiphanius next describes this festival as follows (51, 22.9-10):

Quote:
“First at Alexandria, in the Coreum, as they call it; it is a very large temple, the shrine of Core. They stay up all night singing hymns to the idol with a flute accompaniment. And when they have concluded their nightlong vigil torchbearers descend into an underground shrine after cockcrow…and bring up a wooden image which is seated naked <on> a litter. It has a sign of the cross inlaid with gold on its forehead, two other such signs, [one] on each hand, and two other signs, [one] actually [on each of] its two knees – altogether five signs with a gold impress. And they carry the image itself seven times round the innermost shrine with flutes, tambourines and hymns, hold a feast, and take it back down to its place underground. And when you ask them what this mystery means they reply that today at this hour Core – that is, the virgin – gave birth to Aeo.”


Here we find a Pagan sacred icon with a cross on its forehead, like that made by Catholic priests on the heads of Christian worshippers. We also discover this sacred image constitutes the divine son of the holy virgin mother within Paganism! This Pagan virgin mother was styled Core or Kore, meaning “maiden,” as another name for the Greek nature goddess Persephone, who descended each year into the underworld, to return at spring time, bringing life back with her. This descent into the underworld and the resurrection to life are echoed in a number of myths, including that of Jesus, a subject treated more fully later in the present work. Kore’s son Aeo or Aion is called “the eternal,” whose birth from a virgin constitutes as mystery, presumably ages prior to the Common Era. The fact that the virgin-birth motif represents a mystery explains why it is currently not widely known to have existed long before the purported advent of Jesus Christ and his alleged virgin birth, because evidently it was written down frequently, and where even rarely it was memorialized, many reference may have been destroyed or hidden. In this regard, it is our contention that Christianity constitutes little more than the mysteries turned inside out and broadcast openly. Moreover, the fact that there was a “very large temple” at Alexandria devoted to the worship of the virgin mother, even named after her, is indication of her worship as both widespread and ancient. …Regarding Epiphanius’s account, in a chapter entitled “The Virgin Birth”, Joseph Campbell writes:

Quote:
We learn from the fourth-century saint and churchman Epiphanius (ca. 315-402), for example, of an annual festival observed in Alexandria on January 6, the date assigned to the Epiphany and (originally) the Nativity of Christ, and to his Baptism as well. The pagan occasion was in celebration of the birth of the year-god Aion to the virgin goddess Kore, a Hellenized transformation of Isis.”



What's interesting is that Epiphanius's account was indeed censored in at least one translation and Murdock exposed the entire thing. What isn't mentioned at all is how this ties into Milky Way mythology. Given the right data this is something that could enter the discussion. This is basically a hellenized Isis celebration continuing from a much deeper antiquity. Perhaps the January 6th time frame is intentional for reasons linking to Milky Way observation.

Native wrote:
- The mytheme of Osiris being Isis´s brother and husband, could then be explained in the way that they both are born out from the same Primeval Elements in the galactic centre = Brother and Sister and as the 2 hemisphere Milky Way figures they are the heavenly wife and husband and the Greatest God and Goddess.


That sounds like a reasonable explanation for the myth making.

_________________
The Jesus Mythicist Creed:
The "Jesus Christ" of the New Testament is a fictional composite of characters, real and mythical. A composite of multiple "people" is no one.

The celestial Origins of Religious Belief
ZG Part 1
Jesus: Hebrew Human or Mythical Messiah?


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 12:32 pm 
Tat Tvam Asi wrote:
Native wrote:
This Sirius-Vega line has 2 significant annual datum’s of approximately Jan. 4th and July.4th at midnight where this line point towards and away from the Milky Way centre. The datum difference between winter solstice and the 4th of January marks the 12 Days of Christmas (i.e. Dec.25th and Jan. 6th) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve_Days_of_Christmas - where the January 6th marks the end of Epiphany and the revelation of the “son of God”. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epiphany_%28holiday%29

We have now a connection between Orion (The 3 Magi?) that points to Sirius (The Bethlehem Star?) and a connection between “the birth of Jesus” of 25th Dec. and the 12 days of Christmas towards the 6th of Jan. that marks the line to the Milky Way centre and the epiphany revelation day of Jan. 6th that marks “the son of god” revelation.

Seriously, have you read CiE? You entered discussion at BT about CiE but have you actually read what Murdock has written about the Alexandrian Kore and Aion mystery celebration on January 6th, as described by Epiphanius?

Tat,
By mentioning the datum’s and the Christian connections, it was just a general example of the cosmogony and mythology connected to the Milky Way and its centre. Any other cross-cultural telling with the same mytheme could fit this explanation - which of course I clearly should have emphasized.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 1:16 pm 
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I think that the Milky Way brings an added depth to the discussion of the Alexandrian Kore and Aion ritual, which, is something that Christianity sort of took over. The question of why they chose January 6 is glaring. It isn't the winter solstice so then what other astrotheological significance does it hold?

When the Alexandrian's said that it was at this hour that Kore gave birth to Aion, they are replicating a hellenized version of Isis giving birth to Horus, the virgin giving birth to the sun as inscribed at the temple at Sais. If you're correct about about the inscription at Sais basically meaning that the sun emerged from the galactic center then it flows right on through to the hellenization of Egypt and then the eventual Christianization that followed. That the Christian Epiphany takes place near an astrotheological galactic center marker seems to link directly back to Egyptian creation myth along this line of reasoning. And that's what I was wondering. You got into it with FTL about whether or not you've read Murdock's books. I seem to recall you read the CC. You may want to continue reading through her works because some of this material is obviously relevant to your Milky Way mythology research.

_________________
The Jesus Mythicist Creed:
The "Jesus Christ" of the New Testament is a fictional composite of characters, real and mythical. A composite of multiple "people" is no one.

The celestial Origins of Religious Belief
ZG Part 1
Jesus: Hebrew Human or Mythical Messiah?


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 8:00 am 
Tat Tvam Asi wrote:
I think that the Milky Way brings an added depth to the discussion of the Alexandrian Kore and Aion ritual, which is something that Christianity sort of took over. The question of why they chose January 6 is glaring. It isn't the winter solstice so then what other astrotheological significance does it hold? AD 1

AD 1: As mentioned above in my former reply, it holds the cardinal Milky Way directions as seen from our Solar System at midnight. The four scientific astronomical datum´s is: 4th January > 4th April> 4th July > 4th October. So these datum´s hold the Galactic Rituals directly connected to the Milky Way Creation and to the very centre, The Cosmic Womb, where everything in our galaxy is created.

The 4th (6th) of January must then be a specific remembrance datum for the solar system direction to the galactic centre and to the Galactic First Light from where everything is created in our galaxy.

- It seems that both the solar and the galactic worship are somewhat different from the scientific astronomical data. The 25th of December ritual should correctly be the 20 or 21 Winter Solstice if strictly following the Solar Mythology - and the 6th of January should be the scientific 4th of January if strictly following an up to date Galactic Mythology.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas it is said:
“The birth date of Jesus, which historians place between 7 and 2 BC, is unknown. In the early-to-mid 4th century, the Roman state Church first placed Christmas on December 25. Theories advanced to explain that choice include that it falls nine months after the Christian celebration of the conception of Jesus, that it was the date of the Roman winter solstice, or of some ancient winter festival.

The original date of the celebration in the East was January 6 (see Epiphany) and that is still the date of the celebration in Armenia, where it is a public holiday, and for the Armenian Apostolic Church”.

AD: This confirms the datum of the galactic centre remembrance day. So: Both the winter solstice and “the galactic centre remembrance day” of the January 6th (4th) have been in play as the "birthday of Christ" (the archetypical mytheme of galactic knowledge).

I`ll certainly go for the Galactic 6th (4th) of January – not as a literal birth of a son of a virgin goddess and a god, but as a concept of archetypical galactic knowledge, a conscious knowledge of the Milky Way Creation as such. In this sense, anyone can be - and are - a son or daughter of the supreme creative forces that have been called deities of this or that.

- In this knowledge, the movements in our solar system and its connected annual and seasonal rituals are of course very important for many reasons, but also illogical if connecting the sun and the seasonal changes directly to major and superior creator deities as for instants Isis and Osiris and their cross-cultural comparisons – because the seasonal changes are always opposite each other on the Earth hemispheres.

It makes no global or logical sense to claim that the “Son of the Sun” is born at the winter solstice datum argumenting that “the solar light again is increasing”, because at the same time it is summer solstice at the opposite Earth hemisphere, decreasing the solar light time.
Attachment:
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Excessive Solar Worship.Detail.jpg
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Compared to the Earth-Solar worshipping, the Star-Galactic worshipping have no such contradictions at all and it goes for both Earth hemispheres at the same time and therefore this is the most logical worshipping of them all, when it comes to finding a common cultural/religious worshipping and explanation connected to the globally common myths.

- The very annual and seasonal changes should of course locally and actually on both hemispheres, only be connected to the specific Sun and the Earth deity themselves, following the scientifically datum´s, and not directly to any other deities. If doing this anyway, the very same mistake as with David Talbott in the Saturn Myth, takes place:

Connecting an ever so fine and ever so thoroughly cross-culturally mythological compared story to the wrong celestial objects, makes no sense.

NB: With these my comments, I´m aware of clashing with the very idea on this Forum, but I can only offer my cooperation with my second opinions or leave this Forum if this is wanted.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 9:38 pm 
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This is a prime example of how the galactic center mythology may have been aimed at January 6th and was going on in Alexandria Egypt in a hellenized transformation, and then later accepted as the birth of Christ by Christianity, only to then later be shifted around to the Epiphany with the birth of Christ dated back to December 25th to align with Mithra, Sol Invictus, etc.

I'll jump in make a correction here Native:
Native wrote:
The 25th of December ritual should correctly be the 20 or 21 Winter Solstice if strictly following the Solar Mythology - and the 6th of January should be the scientific 4th of January if strictly following an up to date Galactic Mythology.

As for the solar mythology, they are not celebrating the BEGINNING of the winter solstice with the Christmas celebration, but rather the END of it. It's set up to where the sun visibly stands still for three days during the winter solstice, and then Christmas morning is meant to celebrate the first day that the sun begins moving one degree northward after the winter solstice is over, showing the turn around towards longer and warmer days ahead and foreshadowing the return of organic life. So no, the ritual isn't meant to be, nor should be celebrated on December 20th or 21st. Do you follow along with this?

Native wrote:
It makes no global or logical sense to claim that the “Son of the Sun” is born at the winter solstice datum argumenting that “the solar light again is increasing”, because at the same time it is summer solstice at the opposite Earth hemisphere, decreasing the solar light time.

Yes, it makes perfect sense. We're discussing myths created in the northern hemisphere about the northern hemisphere. And in this region, the light begins to increase. Egypt is not in the southern hemisphere, nor Jerusalem, Greece, or Rome. So it makes no sense whatsoever to contrast between how their myths apply to the southern hemisphere.

As for the dates of January 4 and 6, I don't know. Like you said, it follows 12 days from Christmas. So it looks like they wanted to celebrate the galactic center 12 days after the winter solstice has ended. The Christians were trying to incorporate all of these various ancient astrotheological points of the year into their religion. If the meaning of the Alexandrian mystery drama had to do with the virgin mother and the galactic center, then of course they had to try and take over this mystery. There's an off set between the first longer day of the year and the period favorable for viewing the galactic center, so, we find two offset religious days each aimed at recognizing one of the two obervable events. As for Christmas Eve, the virgin is virgo who rises in the east after midnight and then gives birth to the sun which rises in the east thereafter at dawn. As for this Kore mystery on January 6, it's probably a hellenized version of the Milky Way mother myth as you say.

_________________
The Jesus Mythicist Creed:
The "Jesus Christ" of the New Testament is a fictional composite of characters, real and mythical. A composite of multiple "people" is no one.

The celestial Origins of Religious Belief
ZG Part 1
Jesus: Hebrew Human or Mythical Messiah?


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 5:02 pm 
Tat Tvam Asi wrote:
Native wrote:
It makes no global or logical sense to claim that the “Son of the Sun” is born at the winter solstice datum arguing that “the solar light again is increasing”, because at the same time it is summer solstice at the opposite Earth hemisphere, decreasing the solar light time.

Yes, it makes perfect sense. We're discussing myths created in the northern hemisphere about the northern hemisphere. And in this region, the light begins to increase. Egypt is not in the southern hemisphere, nor Jerusalem, Greece, or Rome. AD 1

AD 1: You are of course right in this specific explanation. But as soon as just one primary creator deity of any gender quality is connected to the seasonal solar myth, it still makes no sense in my opinion.

Any primary creator deity who is said to “have created everything in our galaxy” has of course created the whole Earth and not just the northern or southern part of the Earth.

Therefore it is not logically to connect any of these deities to the changes of the solar seasons and the waning and waxing light on just one hemisphere. The logical argumentation and connection has snapped and it doesn´t hang together.

- That is why I´m saying this is to connect an otherwise correct compared story to the wrong celestial object (the Sun) which only can be the light of the Milky Way centre and the superior deities of the southern and northern hemisphere Milky Way contours.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 5:45 pm 
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Native wrote:
Any primary creator deity who is said to “have created everything in our galaxy” has of course created the whole Earth and not just the northern or southern part of the Earth.

Hold on now, we're talking about any primary creator deity who created the whole earth in northern hemisphere originating mythology, which, is addressed to the cosmology of a flat earth with a multi-level heaven above. There is no southern hemisphere to consider because there is no sphere in the mythology concerning the planet earth. You are trying to look at it from a modern perspective and consider the entire spherical globe including both hemisphere's. So you'd have to first set out to prove beyond question that the Egyptians, Jews, Greeks, Romans, etc. were thinking in terms of a spherical earth separated into two hemisphere's before you can even get started with this line of reasoning.

Native wrote:
Therefore it is not logically to connect any of these deities to the changes of the solar seasons and the waning and waxing light on just one hemisphere. The logical argumentation and connection has snapped and it doesn´t hang together.

You see, the above is a huge logic leap with respect to the fact that you didn't even get past the starting point of proving that these particular northern hemisphere cultures and myth makers regarded the earth as spherical and separated into two hemisphere's. That being said, it remains very logical to continue connecting these deities to the changes in seasons and light of the northern hemisphere regions, which, were considered to be the whole world at the time.
Native wrote:
- That is why I´m saying this is to connect an otherwise correct compared story to the wrong celestial object (the Sun) which only can be the light of the Milky Way centre and the superior deities of the southern and northern hemisphere Milky Way contours.

In the case of Kore and Aion, celebrated on January 6th, Aion is the year God born of the virgin mother. The year is addressed to the sun. The virgin mother could represent the womb of the Milky Way. If we are to analyze this further it would seem that the mystery could be based on a celebration of the sun's (Aion / Horus) birth from the Milky Way center (Kore / Neith-Isis). But that (January 6) is not the date of the sun's first movement one degree northward. That date is 12 days earlier on December 25th. But back in the age of Aries, much earlier, the winter solstice fell on January 4, 5, and 6:
Quote:
http://www.freethoughtnation.com/forums ... =20&t=2617
Jerusalem 1 AD
15 December - 117° 19.938'
16 December - 117° 24.218'
17 December - 117° 27.837'
18 December - 117° 30.927'
19 December - 117° 33.390'
20 December - 117° 35.388'
21 December - 117° 36.763'
22 December - 117° 37.524'
23 December - 117° 37.695'
24 December - 117° 37.337'

25 December - 117° 36.381'
26 December - 117° 34.826'
27 December - 117° 32.676'
28 December - 117° 29.997'

Rome 1 AD
15 December - 121° 26.891'
16 December - 121° 31.950'
17 December - 121° 36.252'
18 December - 121° 39.870'
19 December - 121° 42.727'
20 December - 121° 44.997'
21 December - 121° 46.585'
22 December - 121° 47.415'
23 December - 121° 47.564'
24 December - 121° 47.122'

25 December - 121° 45.909'
26 December - 121° 44.024'
27 December - 121° 41.380'
28 December - 121° 38.139'

In the Age of Aries:

Jerusalem 2000 BC

1 January - 117° 48.932'
2 January - 117° 51.190'
3 January - 117° 52.859'
4 January - 117° 54.004'
5 January - 117° 54.554'
6 January - 117° 54.577'
7 January - 117° 53.940'
8 January - 117° 52.776'
9 January - 117° 51.097'
10 January - 117° 48.762'
11 January - 117° 45.896'

So at that ancient time - or shortly thereafter with the solstice dates slipping backward - it made perfect sense to celebrate the sun as born out of the galactic center mother womb, it would seem. And if the date has been falling back over time then at one point January 6th would have been the day after the winter solstice, just like December 25 years later. It's slipped back even more now with December 21st starting the solstice instead of December 22nd around 1 AD.

I think the fact that the Alexandrian's were still celebrating on January 6th shows the antiquity of the mystery drama itself. It must have been going on before the hellenized transformation of Kore and Aion in the age of Pisces back to an earlier form of Isis and Horus in the previous age of Aries. That makes even more sense because we have a celebration of the sun (Horus / Aion) coming out of the cosmic virgin mother womb (Neith-Isis / Kore) on one of the actual days of increasing solar light in the northern hemisphere, where, these myths have originated to begin with during times of a flat earth and near eastern multi-level heavens cosmology...

_________________
The Jesus Mythicist Creed:
The "Jesus Christ" of the New Testament is a fictional composite of characters, real and mythical. A composite of multiple "people" is no one.

The celestial Origins of Religious Belief
ZG Part 1
Jesus: Hebrew Human or Mythical Messiah?


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:43 am 
Tat Tvam Asi wrote:
Native wrote:
Any primary creator deity who is said to “have created everything in our galaxy” has of course created the whole Earth and not just the northern or southern part of the Earth.

Hold on now, we're talking about any primary creator deity who created the whole earth in northern hemisphere originating mythology, which, is addressed to the cosmology of a flat earth with a multi-level heaven above. AD 1

There is no southern hemisphere to consider because there is no sphere in the mythology concerning the planet earth. You are trying to look at it from a modern perspective and consider the entire spherical globe including both hemisphere's. So you'd have to first set out to prove beyond question that the Egyptians, Jews, Greeks, Romans, etc. were thinking in terms of a spherical earth separated into two hemisphere's before you can even get started with this line of reasoning. AD 2
Native wrote:
Therefore it is not logically to connect any of these deities to the changes of the solar seasons and the waning and waxing light on just one hemisphere. The logical argumentation and connection has snapped and it doesn´t hang together.

You see, the above is a huge logic leap with respect to the fact that you didn't even get past the starting point of proving that these particular northern hemisphere cultures and myth makers regarded the earth as spherical and separated into two hemisphere's. That being said, it remains very logical to continue connecting these deities to the changes in seasons and light of the northern hemisphere regions, which, were considered to be the whole world at the time. AD 3
Native wrote:
- That is why I´m saying this is to connect an otherwise correct compared story to the wrong celestial object (the Sun) which only can be the light of the Milky Way centre and the superior deities of the southern and northern hemisphere Milky Way contours.

In the case of Kore and Aion, celebrated on January 6th, Aion is the year God born of the virgin mother. The year is addressed to the sun. The virgin mother could represent the womb of the Milky Way. If we are to analyze this further it would seem that the mystery could be based on a celebration of the sun's (Aion / Horus) birth from the Milky Way center (Kore / Neith-Isis). But that (January 6) is not the date of the sun's first movement one degree northward. That date is 12 days earlier on December 25th. But back in the age of Aries, much earlier, the winter solstice fell on January 4, 5, and 6: AD 4

I think the fact that the Alexandrian's were still celebrating on January 6th shows the antiquity of the mystery drama itself. It must have been going on before the hellenized transformation of Kore and Aion in the age of Pisces back to an earlier form of Isis and Horus in the previous age of Aries. That makes even more sense because we have a celebration of the sun (Horus / Aion) coming out of the cosmic virgin mother womb (Neith-Isis / Kore) on one of the actual days of increasing solar light in the northern hemisphere, where, these myths have originated to begin with during times of a flat earth and near eastern multi-level heavens cosmology... AD 5


AD 1: Tat, I´m somewhat surprised. I´ve been writing about the Earth 2 hemispheres for quite some time now, referring to the Earth hemisphere northern and southern Milky Way contours – and now you refer to a Flat Earth mythology, which I think is a great and grave underestimation of the ancient knowledge. Read this http://www.native-science.net/Turtle_Elephant_Myth.htm

AD 2: The whole Milky Way mythology is implicit dealing with 2 Earth hemispheres, 1 above and 1 below the Earth, regardless on which hemisphere you are living. On the northern night sky hemisphere (The Upperworld) you find the Milky Way band showing the mythical archetype of the Greatest God. (Just go out in a clear night and see for you self) and on the southern night sky hemisphere (The Underworld) you find the Milky Way band showing the archetype of the Greatest Goddess. This is just what this is all about: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underworld#Underworld_rulers

AD 3: Read AD 2.

AD 4: The only thing that can change the Earth/Sun seasonal datum´s are humans that makes changes in their calendars. The Earth orbit velocity around the Sun can of course not change suddenly forth or back.

It is of course only the star constellations that changes compared to the seasonal markings via the precession movement and not the Earth/Sun seasonal related data that repeats itself every year on approximately the same datum´s.

When working with the Star Mythology regarding the solar and star relations in our Milky Way, you also can make a steady calendar if noticing and making a line from Sirius to Vega i Lyra which prolonged line points directly to the Milky Way centre and the superior deities. Regardless what datum or from which calendar you are working, this star calendar-line always (for a long, long time, anyway) will show the direction to the Milky Way centre.

AD 5: What do you really think of that is going on when a deity “is descended to the underworld”?

How, out from “a flat Earth perspective”, can Neith-Isis logically be connected to be “rulers of the underworld”, “located in the Sky” if not connecting those to the Milky Way Mythology of (Upperworld and) Underworld, relating very clearly and logical to the Earth hemispheres.


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